Why does 'rockist' imply a negative? Even, does it imply a negative? This is perhaps a question I would like to ask in the interim since I am still pondering the answer.
― Roger Fascist, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Probably because what they really would like to say is "hey X is really rockin'!" but realize how geeky and grandfatherly that sounds and try use a word they think sounds cooler but don't quite know the definition of.
― Nicole, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
It's also totally possible to be 'rockist' and proud of it, though you probably wouldn't use the word. It sounds much worse than it is cause it's semantically linked to words like 'racist', whereas actually being a rockist has the same moral non-weight as being 'prose-ist' might.
― Tom, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
It seems here that 'Rockist' is applied by those wishing to slur the rock music fan, or even the music fan who enjoys rock; who would otherwise have never acknowledged the term. Therefore, the negative definition of 'rockism' is apparent only to those who use the word - it holds a separate definition to those to whom it is applied, who both try to grasp the signified in the initial usage but must also marry any interpretation with a personal incomprehension. Does this mean the whole debate is meaningless? Or am I talking ballderdash?
― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
An example of a classic and fairly common 'rockist' argument is: Dance/disco music is less interesting/important/good than rock music because very few dance albums have stood the test of time. The elements of 'rockism' in this argument are the idea that the worth of music is measured in albums and not, say, 12" singles, and the idea that 'standing the test of time' is a determinant of a music's value. Both of these are perfectly defensible positions - it's the taking of them for granted that is 'rockist'.
― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
If that is indeed what 'rockism' means, then it seems to be somewhat of a misnomer. There is nothing inherent in rock music that requires that it has to be packaged into album-length portions. It's true that it is usually marketed that way these days, but so are jazz, classical, country, folk, etc. So that idea is just as much jazz-ist or folk-ist as it is rockist. The same goes for the idea of standing the test of time. Surely that idea is not confined to the realm of rock music. Perhaps it would be better termed 'classicalist' or some such.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
("But live performance is valued in rock!" you say? Yeah, to a point. Think about how many top-100-albums lists you've seen, and then think about how many top-100-gigs lists you've seen).
The test of time thing is common to most value-systems, yes. Oops!
mark: I like your diagramatics though in this case:
(i understand what it means in a precise way) + (you can't be bothered to) = not actually a disgareement about meaning, roger
Is a bit silly isn't it? Not sure that I have this right (if I'm wide of the mark please don't get upset) but if you are suggesting that I can't be bothered to understand your suppositions; well, this is insulting to both of us. I think, if you read my warblings earlier, you will note that I was pointing out that whilst you might understand your classification in a precise manner, I (and I am sure, others) am less sure of your definitions. And this, might I assure you, is not related to laziness (though it might perhaps be due to being a bit thick in comparison to your gargantuan intellect).
SCENE ONE
mark s opens his eyes. he is in hell. in huge letters on the wall before him is written WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING SEXY?
he turns. in huge letters on the wall before him is written HAHA YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED IT GEOLOGISM DO YOU SEE HAHA?
enter the devil
THE DEVIL: What is Rockism?
MARK S: [starts to speak, but notices the devil has earplugs in]
THE DEVIL: Come on, come on.
prods mark s with red hot fork thing
― The Actual Mr. Jones, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I have also noticed this tendency in rock criticism to consider the 'album' as the basic unit of creative endeavor. There are probably many reasons for this. One reason, as you mentioned, is that the rise of the 33 RPM coincided with the rise of rock criticism. However, rock music itself predated both rock criticism and the 33 RPM album. Like most other popular forms, rock was first marketed in a singles format - however, this was due to the techonological constraints of the time and not a deliberate choice as such. Another factor in the primacy of the album in rock criticism is probably the Beatles. In the second half of their career, they retreated into the studio, stopped playing live gigs, and began crafting album-length statements that were more than just collections of songs (the whole being greater than the sum of its parts?). For many years, the "concept album" Sgt. Pepper's was hailed as the best album ever, perhaps due in large part to the sense it gave of being a single cohesive statement. Notwithstanding these points, however, I still feel that rock as a musical form is indifferent to single vs. album considerations. Rock is defined by certain elements (among them amplification, repetition, beat) that can operate just as comfortably at single-length as at album-length or even in a live setting. It should also be remembered that other musical genres adopted the idea of the album-length statement at the same time, or even earlier, than rock did. As soon as the technology of long- playing albums became widely available, jazz artists such as Miles Davis began crafting album-length statements that were built around a cohesive theme or concept, for example: "Sketches of Spain", "Kind of Blue", and "Porgy and Bess" - all of which came out in the late 1950's - long before the Beatles ever made their first LP. You might argue that a composition or improvisation is the basic unit of creativity here, but the albums were crafted as cohesive statements that stood on their own.
mojo's "50 greatest reggae albums of all time" this month. a "rockist" approach to reggae.
― cybele, Saturday, 10 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link