Surf's Up Vs A Day In The Life

But I agree that although I love it, the content of Smile might not have been mainstream enough to be a big hit. On the other hand, the publicity would have been huge after GV, with the "Brian is a genius" idea spreading, McCartney participating in the recording of "Vega-table"...

It's a really hard one to call. For me, anyway - both of these are tracks that knocked me flat-out when I first heard them... and I first heard them years and years after they were released, which says a lot.

> Would 'Smile' have been one of the biggest pop albums of '67? It's hard to say. I mean, 'Pet Sounds' hardly set the world on fire in '66, did it? A lot of acclaim of that album has been retrospective, surely!

I've read this alot, but it's a fallacy. Pet Sounds was hugely acclaimed and influential upon its release, including by the Beatles themselves as Paul McCartney and George Martin have repeatedly noted. It was also very popular - top 10 in the US spinning off four top-40 singles (at a time when jazz, crooners, and Broadway still ruled the album charts), and tickling the top of the charts in the UK. NME declared the Beach Boys the most popular band in the UK at the end of 1966, bouncing the Beatles to #2.

Would Smile have been a hit? "Good Vibrations" had recently topped the charts on both sides of the Atlantic. I think had "Surf's Up" rather than "Heroes and Villains" been the follow-up single it would have sustained the momentum. (I tend to think had Smile been finished and released in 1967, it would have been whittled down to a single LP, about 45 minutes, leaving out the connecting passages and focusing on the strongest songs like "Wonderful" and "Cabinessence". It would unquestionably been perceived as the leading edge in pop.

I'll pick Surf's Up over A Day In The Life although they're both amazingly great and original songs.

For some reason it's hard for me to imagine "Surf's Up" in heavy rotation on radio, just seems too strange.

"Heroes and Villains" is probably even stranger and it was a sizable hit, and not as good a song.

Much of Sgt. Pepper is rather strange too, certainly Day In The Life, Within You Without You, etc.

"Strawberry Fields Forever" from around that time was pretty strange too, and a huge hit

Between them, "Strawberry Fields" and "Good Vibrations" had every element of strangeness that "Surf's Up" did (dissonance, unusually instrumentation, oblique lyrics, stops and starts, sudden tempo changes, shifting time signatures) and both received heavy radio rotation. Can't see why "Surf's Up" would have been any different. Like so many Beach Boys songs, it draws you into the song immediately (no intro, no long wait to get to the hook) which bodes well for radio airplay.

Surfs up is too sad to be a hit

OTM. Plus no real hook. The idea that "Smile" would've changed music forever if released is a nice hypothetical exercise, but count me on the side that doesn't think it would have nearly been as important as people like to imagine.

The real joy of the alternate universe where "Smile" is a success lies in the records Brian would have made with the boys (and without) afterward.

prefer A Day but Surf's Up is a close close second, I think my two favorite 'rock' compositions of the 60's.

I think had "Surf's Up" rather than "Heroes and Villains" been the follow-up single it would have sustained the momentum.

Ohhh, how I disagree. A large part of the magic of "Surf's Up" was how the listener came to it, the plaintive solo piano TV performance.

but I heard the 1971 version long before I'd ever heard Brian's solo piano take (either of them) and still think the same. And likely would have with if the newly released orchestrated version with Brian on vocals was how I first heard it.

But yeah I know what you mean. I remember watching the "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" TV documentary in 1995 which showed Van Dyke Parks at the piano with Brian Wilson singing "Orange Crate Art" before the album was released; I liked it better than the fully-produced studio version that would be on the CD.

I Thought this was Surf's Up vs A Day In The Life of A Tree

Both of these are songs that I would consider pinnacles in the history of modern music. But I have to go with Surf's Up. First of all, A Day In The Life is obviously two songs mashed together. It's more catchy, but Surf's Up is complex - it winds and meanders and tricks. It still gives me goosebumps all the way through. From "Surf's Up Mmmhmm/Mmmhmm/Mmmhmmm aboard the tidal wave" to "Columnated ruins domino". Insanely beautiful. A Day In The Life sounds amateurish, hamfisted, lowbrow by comparison.

that would have been a good one too !
Actually, I think I find ADITL of a Tree more moving than surf's up ! crazy talk, eh !

Not really. It's a bit more narrow in its emotional content, but it's a great song. Not even sung by a Beach Boy, mind.

xpost
I agree with the idea that ADITL seems more basic.
but it's the beatles' songs in general that seem more simple than (some) beachboys'.
Like, someone on the smile thread said a revolver sessions would be great.
you would have some demos of the songs, like in the anthologies, but I don't think there would be anything as interesting as hearing the recording of the various parts of pet sounds or smile.
I love the beatles but the songs and instrumentation/arrangements are more guitar/bass/drums and verses/chorus/bridge.
I'm not really clear and it's not about saying one is better than the other but it's just very different !

but then again, back to this thread, the simplicity of ADITL is more moving and effective than the complexity and sophistication of surf's up to me.

oh yeah ? who sings it ? I always thought it was brian !

It is....... isn't it?

It's Jack Rieley, their manager at the time

xpost Yeah, I mean, I think Surf's Up is as close as you could get to Brian's internal musical monologue. It's a glimpse into his fractured mind's image of perfection. A Day In The Life was a group effort written by at least three geniuses (Lennon/McCartney/Martin) and therefore makes concessions to the hivemind notion of what makes a rock song, hence why it's that much more palatable on the surface. Brian had no one to say "Hey, you can't do that!" or "Why not do it this way?" or "I don't get it, WTF?!" (other than Mike Love, who I'm sure was largely ignored; and Van Dyke Parks who I'm sure actively encouraged such mentalist free-associative behaviour). So ADITL is an inventive psychedelic pop song, actively pushing the boat out when it comes to regular song structures and arrangments. Surf's Up is a symphony mainlined from a genius brain on the verge of collapse. I don't think Wilson was even thinking "hey this is really crazy, it's going to drive people wild and change the face of music forever" when he wrote it - I think in his head he was still writing the equivalent of car and girl songs, just the next level up..?

Jack Rieley was picked because Brian thought he sounded "like an mighty oak tree" or something IIRC.

... no, he 'sings' "A Day in the Life of a Tree". This is getting confusing. (xxp)

"A Day in the Life of a Tree" is pretty silly tbh

but...that's what dog latin was talking about?

Yeah ADITLOAT is sung by Jack Rieley. Surf's Up is Brian.

Phew!

The idea of Jack Rieley singing Surf's Up is pretty LOL

Yeah, I mean, I think Surf's Up is as close as you could get to Brian's internal musical monologue. It's a glimpse into his fractured mind's image of perfection. A Day In The Life was a group effort written by at least three geniuses (Lennon/McCartney/Martin) and therefore makes concessions to the hivemind notion of what makes a rock song, hence why it's that much more palatable on the surface. Brian had no one to say "Hey, you can't do that!" or "Why not do it this way?" or "I don't get it, WTF?!" (other than Mike Love, who I'm sure was largely ignored; and Van Dyke Parks who I'm sure actively encouraged such mentalist free-associative behaviour). So ADITL is an inventive psychedelic pop song, actively pushing the boat out when it comes to regular song structures and arrangments. Surf's Up is a symphony mainlined from a genius brain on the verge of collapse. I don't think Wilson was even thinking "hey this is really crazy, it's going to drive people wild and change the face of music forever" when he wrote it - I think in his head he was still writing the equivalent of car and girl songs, just the next level up..?

― Glo-Vember (dog latin), Monday, 7 November 2011 13:40 (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

Stellar post DL

Stellar, indeed.

aw thx guys

VDP wrote all the lyrics to Surf's Up, correct? So give him some credit because that is some Wastelandesque imagery and I love it.

Don't know if anyone here claimed Brian wrote the lyrics

I love the beatles but the songs and instrumentation/arrangements are more guitar/bass/drums and verses/chorus/bridge.

Why does this warrant a "but"? Are guit/bass/drum arrangements inherently inferior to those written around xylophone and string quartet or something? It's a moot point anyways, Brian Wilson used bass guitar and drums, the Beatles used piano and non-rock percussion. I'm trying to figure out the verse/chorus/bridge in ADITL and while you could make a case that they all exist (what i think of the bridge, the wordless meandering chords after Paul's part, is probably my favorite Beatles chord progression) it certainly isn't in a pedestrian standard rock way.

I think ADITL gets a big help because the ensemble performance, of everyone in the studio playing through the song together, is really terrific, and by then the rock band that was the Beach Boys (and was for most of their career) was pretty much shut out of the recording process altogether, save for vocals.

no-one suggested he wrote all the lyrics but there was "I think Surf's Up is as close as you could get to Brian's internal musical monologue. It's a glimpse into his fractured mind's image of perfection. A Day In The Life was a group effort written by at least three geniuses (Lennon/McCartney/Martin) and therefore makes concessions to the hivemind notion of what makes a rock song, hence why it's that much more palatable on the surface"

a 'revolver' or any beatles album sessions collection isn't going to be as interesting as these, no (anyway if you search out purple chick versions you can hear pretty much what those collections would sound like), but remember that Pet Sounds and Smile sessions involved top-notch session musicians working through arrangements, it's a totally different thing.

ADITL, for all its orchestra flourishes, is basically a live take. They aren't the Wrecking Crew but I think the Beatles as musicians tend to get underrated, esp. during the psychedelic years.

The only song the Beatles made that was modular, piece-by-piece, is "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)". Which is really the only Beatles song that would kind of fit on "Smile". Of course it's more Goon Show than Gershwin but it still sort of makes a strange sense.

really? i thought they did a good bunch of 'modular' tracks from Rubber Soul onwards? (At least that's what I vaguely remember from Revolution In the Head - lots of having to speed and slow down certain parts to match keys and things?

Oh yeah, SFF, how could I have missed that.

SFF?

Strawberry Fields Forever (had to google it)

Something vaguely recalled about the horn solo on Penny Lane having to be changed to an unplayable pitch cos of so much tape-fuckery or something too...

Was it perhaps just the intro? Which was possibly added later?

... in SFF not PL

strawberry fields is pieced together from a couple different takes. but i'm not sure if that's quite the same as what wilson was doing -- each "strawberry" take was complete, as far as I understand, and after the fact they pulled the parts they liked to make the track we know.

anyhoo, as far as this question is concerned, i don't know. it's hard to imagine "surf's up" being more well-known than "day" but "day" is certainly a strange song to be so massively popular, even after years of overexposure.

Whereas...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ssMr0ylbkE

I think I could name at least a half dozen Beatles track that could be classified as modular, piece-by-piece recordings. The big difference being that the Beatles did this more out of laziness (piecing together best takes) vs. Wilson's calculated song arrangements.

Correct. SFF was pieced together after the fact, from individual complete takes. Definitely a different style than B. Wilson. His was more pre-planned, more deliberate. As for slowing down/speeding up piano solos and stuff, I think that's different. That's more of a production flourish, altering the sound of a lead instrument.

I really think "You Know My Name" is the only track where they would just come up with a different section, record just that section, then later piece them all together. And that song took years to complete (66-70)!

Please name those songs! I've been wracking my brain and can't really think of any at the moment.

is "happiness is a warm gun" one of them? it *sounds* modular, and is obviously a couple of different song ideas strung together, but i don't know if it was actually recorded that way.

Wilson's calculated song arrangements.

Not sure how calculated these were either. Modular = writing lots of different bits that sound good then sticking them together?

yeah, they should of stuck in that mindset and made more cracked out pop

in what universe did they NOT make more cracked out pop?!

> I would of preferred an album that's all stuff like "She's Goin' Bald" and "He Gives Speeches"

That's what most of Smiley Smile was.

"Fall Breaks and Back to Winter" is wack but it got darker and more cracked out with "Mrs. O'Leary's cow". I'd like an whole album of cracked out shit - not so much light and wacky

That "sha na na" section in 'She's Goin' Bald' still gives me one hell of a chuckle when I hear it. In fact, the whole song does... "yer too late momma, ain't nothin' upside your head... no more no more no more no more!"

whenever I saw this thread I was always like ugh and now I read it and am surprised at how great it is

I don't care one bit for 'Surf's Up'. I didn't even know it had a following until ILX

― hotter than a hoochie coochie (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, November 9, 2011 12:06 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark

waht

"She's Goin' Bald" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Surf's Up"

surf's up is blahbity blah or mehhity meh

the Befuddling Opinions of Captain Lorax

I would of preferred an album that's all stuff like "She's Goin' Bald" and "He Gives Speeches"

This is why smiley smile is one of my favourite albums, even above smile

captain lorax's technically after the deadline vote bumped surf's up from its rightful #1 spot on the beach boys poll

I respect iatee for having not been so Type A (tight A) about the deadline (like johnnyfever).
Anyways, "God Only Know" is obviously better

iatee was considerate

Oh god, Lorax, still frustrated about the deadline? Jeez, get it out of your system man.

people make lasting impressions

Impressions don't just dissipate. I have no desire to make them disappear

This is why smiley smile is one of my favourite albums, even above smile

― Glo-Vember (dog latin), Tuesday, November 8, 2011 11:45 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

'Smiley Smile' is that oddest thing, a replacement for a scrapped record that is perversely far more uncommercial and strange than what it replaced. It's not a record I dig out on purpose to enjoy, but rather I find it offers a kind of window to how strange things had got in the world of The Beach Boys at that time. 'Wind Chimes' has always been a kind of slightly unsettling moment on 'Smile', but on 'Smiley Smile' it's fucking scary.

yeah, I would support that track for a cracked out Smile album
and even though I like "Heroes and Villains" and "Good Vibrations" - they are bit of a different extreme. Also, "Good Vibrations" always seemed out of place even if there were songs on Smiley Smile that didn't fit either extreme

Impressions don't just dissipate

controlled demolitions are required for that amirite

be careful what you say, it all goes into one big government file

Impressions don't just dissipate. I have no desire to make them disappear

― hotter than a hoochie coochie (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, November 9, 2011 12:53 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

This train of thought will inevitably lead you to mistake frustration for impression. The GBV poll had a deadline, you didn't meet it, get over it. Christ.

I don't care if my poll wasn't tallied. Big whoop. I care about a person's character and I don't jive well with Tight A's. Loosey Goosey all the way baby

Turrican is my new favourite poster. Smiley Smile was the first album I heard after their best ofs and pet sounds, and to me it's their pinnacle. No, not their best or most realised but the truest, most fucked up, most acid fried, funniest, craziest album in a time of crazy fucked up, acid fried funny albums.

Same goes for white album. Shit, you wanted the Beatles or the beach boys to take drugs and discover musical nirvana, these are the ones

Beach Boys/Nirvana collaboration in the immediate future

'Wind Chimes' has always been a kind of slightly unsettling moment on 'Smile', but on 'Smiley Smile' it's fucking scary.

that was the first song i heard off Smiley Smile: i was in my local record store when they started playing Wind Chimes and it kinda blew my mind. i had spent quite a bit of time with 3 different Smile bootlegs at that point so i just assumed this was another fan mix that i hadnt heard. i asked the clerk what album they were playing and then asked if it was for sale

I don't get what's "scary" about Wind Chimes.

Really? The Smiley Smile version is Scott Walker levels of sinister compared to the Smile version (which I heard much later and found quite strange to be honest). Okay not Scott Walker but 'c-lose your eyes and lean ba-ck/listen to wind-wiiiiind chiiiyiiiimea' is sirenic stuff.

I just... what is sinister about chilling out and listening to some windchimes?

like lyrically this song does not deliver the bad vibes

the arrangement is cracked and the melody is eerie but "scary" implies fear of something and I'm not sure what anyone is afraid of in this song

I think some people are better than me at trancing out to "wind chimes". I'm inclined to agree with the only "slightly unsettling" descriptor

are there some backmasked "I am going to KILL YOU" vocals from Mike Love buried in the mix or something

The more you can jibe with the song the harder it can hit you?

I can't really jibe with Syd Barret stuff so it doesn't hit me at all - but I can imagine why it would hit some people. And I don't even think he's bad or anything. He just feels blah to me. Different folk for different folks

It's not just the lyrics, though... it's the way its delivered and the general atmosphere of the track. Whenever I listen to the 'Smiley Smile' version, I just get this vision of an acid burnt-out guy sitting in the dark with a little bit of dim lighting getting freaked out by his wind chimes. In the 'Smiley Smile' version I don't get the impression he's chilling out and listening to some wind chimes... I get more of the impression that the wind chimes are fucking him up for some reason.

That burst at 1:26 is kinda scary. What is that anyway?

tbh, when i was a kid and had Endless Summer on endless repeat i was spooked by the vocals especially on the slow songs- "eerie" is a good word.

Psychedelics when abused can make the most harmless things seem terrifying. That's what windchimes represents - the smile version is 'oh pretty windchimes, wow' the smiley
Smile version is 'get those dissonant fuckers away from me!!'

windchimes really do creep me out tbh. I only ever notice them late at night when it's silent and kind of windy and they often give me a kind of lonesome feeling. I always feel like they're going to suddenly break out into the Suspiria theme.

"Smiley Smile" version of "Windchimes" is effing scary and really good. The "Smile" one is equally great, but in a totally different way.

"Smiley Smile" is like when they decided they couldn't make their "Sgt. Pepper" ("Smile") they instead jumped ahead to making their "White Album".

Smiley Smile needs a serious critical reassessment, no doubt. Great and weird album.

"Good Vibrations," in the end, that is the single to end all singles, but it doesn't need to be on an album. It practically is its own album.

You guys are nuts. The "Smiley Smile" version of "Windchimes" does such massive disservice to the song. The version on this year's Smile is like my favorite thing ever.

As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say that the SS version of that song completely summarizes the most frustrating elements of Beach Boys.

I never said that I preferred the 'Smiley Smile' version of 'Wind Chimes' over the 'Smile' version, just that both versions are different. I like the 'Smile' version because of its sheer listenability and unbeatable melody, whereas the 'Smiley Smile' version is more of a burned-out version.

I think both are great for different reasons.

Sorry - I didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth. I was just surprised by everyone's enthusiasm for the Smiley Smile version.

"Vegetables" is probably the only track on SS that I'd rank above the Smile versions.