Surf's Up Vs A Day In The Life

VDP wrote all the lyrics to Surf's Up, correct? So give him some credit because that is some Wastelandesque imagery and I love it.

Don't know if anyone here claimed Brian wrote the lyrics

I love the beatles but the songs and instrumentation/arrangements are more guitar/bass/drums and verses/chorus/bridge.

Why does this warrant a "but"? Are guit/bass/drum arrangements inherently inferior to those written around xylophone and string quartet or something? It's a moot point anyways, Brian Wilson used bass guitar and drums, the Beatles used piano and non-rock percussion. I'm trying to figure out the verse/chorus/bridge in ADITL and while you could make a case that they all exist (what i think of the bridge, the wordless meandering chords after Paul's part, is probably my favorite Beatles chord progression) it certainly isn't in a pedestrian standard rock way.

I think ADITL gets a big help because the ensemble performance, of everyone in the studio playing through the song together, is really terrific, and by then the rock band that was the Beach Boys (and was for most of their career) was pretty much shut out of the recording process altogether, save for vocals.

no-one suggested he wrote all the lyrics but there was "I think Surf's Up is as close as you could get to Brian's internal musical monologue. It's a glimpse into his fractured mind's image of perfection. A Day In The Life was a group effort written by at least three geniuses (Lennon/McCartney/Martin) and therefore makes concessions to the hivemind notion of what makes a rock song, hence why it's that much more palatable on the surface"

a 'revolver' or any beatles album sessions collection isn't going to be as interesting as these, no (anyway if you search out purple chick versions you can hear pretty much what those collections would sound like), but remember that Pet Sounds and Smile sessions involved top-notch session musicians working through arrangements, it's a totally different thing.

ADITL, for all its orchestra flourishes, is basically a live take. They aren't the Wrecking Crew but I think the Beatles as musicians tend to get underrated, esp. during the psychedelic years.

The only song the Beatles made that was modular, piece-by-piece, is "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)". Which is really the only Beatles song that would kind of fit on "Smile". Of course it's more Goon Show than Gershwin but it still sort of makes a strange sense.

really? i thought they did a good bunch of 'modular' tracks from Rubber Soul onwards? (At least that's what I vaguely remember from Revolution In the Head - lots of having to speed and slow down certain parts to match keys and things?

Oh yeah, SFF, how could I have missed that.

SFF?

Strawberry Fields Forever (had to google it)

Something vaguely recalled about the horn solo on Penny Lane having to be changed to an unplayable pitch cos of so much tape-fuckery or something too...

Was it perhaps just the intro? Which was possibly added later?

... in SFF not PL

strawberry fields is pieced together from a couple different takes. but i'm not sure if that's quite the same as what wilson was doing -- each "strawberry" take was complete, as far as I understand, and after the fact they pulled the parts they liked to make the track we know.

anyhoo, as far as this question is concerned, i don't know. it's hard to imagine "surf's up" being more well-known than "day" but "day" is certainly a strange song to be so massively popular, even after years of overexposure.

Whereas...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ssMr0ylbkE

I think I could name at least a half dozen Beatles track that could be classified as modular, piece-by-piece recordings. The big difference being that the Beatles did this more out of laziness (piecing together best takes) vs. Wilson's calculated song arrangements.

Correct. SFF was pieced together after the fact, from individual complete takes. Definitely a different style than B. Wilson. His was more pre-planned, more deliberate. As for slowing down/speeding up piano solos and stuff, I think that's different. That's more of a production flourish, altering the sound of a lead instrument.

I really think "You Know My Name" is the only track where they would just come up with a different section, record just that section, then later piece them all together. And that song took years to complete (66-70)!

Please name those songs! I've been wracking my brain and can't really think of any at the moment.

is "happiness is a warm gun" one of them? it *sounds* modular, and is obviously a couple of different song ideas strung together, but i don't know if it was actually recorded that way.

Wilson's calculated song arrangements.

Not sure how calculated these were either. Modular = writing lots of different bits that sound good then sticking them together?

Brian called them 'feels', I believe.

A few that I can think of:

I Me Mine (the second half of the song was simply a cut & paste job from the first section)
Revolution #9
Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for Me & My Monkey
I Want You (She's So Heavy)
Paperback Writer (OK maybe that one is a bit of a stretch, but I think it fits the description)

Also, there's a lot of that half-hazard John Cagey sort of editing going on w/The White Album: Glass Onion, Bungalow Bill, etc.

OK, "calculated" probably doesn't apply to lots of the recordings - I was thinking more re: Good Vibrations

"Taxman", has the solo from the middle spliced/repeated onto the end as a fade.

"Yer Blues" cuts back into the beginning of the song at the end, minus (nearly) John's vocal, which you can just about hear if you try.

"Happiness Is a Warm Gun": They pretty much all got in a room and hacked it out in a million takes. It's pretty maddening but it's for the most part a live take. But yeah, that's a good example! One of the best Beatles tracks too.

I guess we can throw in side 2 of Abbey Road also. While it was a bunch of different songs stringed together, I guess the whole thing is a sort of 'suite'.

There's plenty of creative editing to be sure, but I still don't think they fall in the category that I'm thinking of. Basically where you have a song that is made of a bunch of different parts that have different arrangements and are recorded entirely on their own. Maybe if The Beatles had recorded "Good Vibrations" it simply would have been a full live take with the cellos and theremin and stuff done as overdubs.

I think, of the 'proper' Beatles tracks, only "The Ballad of John and Yoko" was self-produced!

I guess it's the vibe. Day In The Life does sound like a patchwork, and I like the way these different parts are stitched together in this abrupt, contrasting way - Lennon's ethereal out-of-body experience as he flies over a map of Blackburn, Lancashire being rudely interrupted by McCartney's kitchen-sink bus journey. But Brian's song doesn't sound so obviously Frankensteinian, each measure sounds like an innate and logical progression of the last - a journey composed entirely by the brain, like a made-up song one might sing while doing the washing up that is allowed to wander and trickle through the mind's natural quarries.

Without wanting to hyperbolise here, Surf's Up makes me think that (left to its own devices) the human mind operates on its own internal formula: that there's a code within each brain that can only be tapped through dreams or psychedelics or hypnotism or plain absent-mindedness. A sort of generative effect where all thoughts and ideas are inter-connected and lead from one to another - a mental river that flows, twists, meanders along a natural path. The difference is that while you or I might be able to dream the ultimate melody, Brian found a way to get that down on paper and kind of paid the price for it. Surf's Up is a snippet of Wilson's DNA. It's a glimpse of a journey through the tunnels of his imagination.

I think you guys are right but I still think whatever edits and overdubs they did were dependent on the full live take that underlies everything. Brian in the "Smile" sessions didn't really seem to ever do that, which is why those are so unique and interesting.

Except....."Surf's Up"? Is that built on a full take?

no, i think it's cut down the middle -- the more orchestral part and the reflective, sparer bit.

Surf's Up is a snippet of Wilson's DNA. It's a glimpse of a journey through the tunnels of his imagination.

And Van Dyke Parks' imagination?

VDP is obviously a huge part of Surf's Up, yeah, but I think even he would admit that Wilson is the inspiration for the song -- he wouldn't have written those lyrics for himself I don't think?

Yeah, I'm not giving VDP enough cred and obviously he had a hugely positive effect on Surf's Up. I'm not sure how much of that song is Brian's and how much is Van Dyke's. I doubt Brian would have written a lyric like "columnated ruins domino", but I believe he wrote the main structure of the song, which is what I'm talking here.

Does anyone else hear similar correlations between "over and over the crow flies o'er the cornfield" and certain lyrics in ADITL? Lots of birds-eye-view imagery in sixties songwriting I guess: Eight Miles High, I Can See For Miles etc...

Surf's Up for sure

drugs

yep.

but I believe he wrote the main structure of the song, which is what I'm talking here.

I didn't think he wrote any of the lyrics

yeah don't think wilson actually wrote any of those lyrics, but i wouldn't be surprised if he "directed" VDP to some extent -- or at least suggested the title "Surf's Up"...

I mean, I hardly think of Brian as any kind of intellectual!

imho Brian was like "I want to write this song, a really groovy type of song, maybe with the title "Surf's Up" and it can be about, like, children, little children and the beach and being maybe a little bit sad about growing up" and then VDP was all "hmmm how about 'Columnated ruins domino'"

and then Brian was like "EXACTLY. Here have some more of this weed."

look at these two geniuses
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-11/65835708.jpg

ADITL always feels to me as two rather slight songs with a big overblown arrangement stuck around it - it just doesn't move me at all, whereas almost every time I've listened to Surf's Up the hairs on the back of my neck have stood up, whether in the full production, or solo versions.

ahah.
that said, the interesting thing about the pet sounds and smile sessions is how Brian is very much in control with all these top level musicians and all. for all the talk about his mental issues, he's pretty impressive and clear !

I think you guys are right but I still think whatever edits and overdubs they did were dependent on the full live take that underlies everything. Brian in the "Smile" sessions didn't really seem to ever do that, which is why those are so unique and interesting.

yes, that's part of the thing when I say that beatles sessions wouldn't be interesting the same way pet sounds/smile are. that said, pet sounds/smile sessions are live takes but with all the various instruments involved instead of overdubs. I guess that's one part of the appeal of the sessions to hear all these musicians develop the ideas and build the songs under the supervision of Brian. It's hard to explain but the construction of the songs and the way the instruments are used feel totally different between the beatles and the beachboys.

"Surf's Up" was VDP's title, and I'm pretty sure that Brian wanted to call it something else b/c he was wary of anything to do w/ surfing at that point. But VDP talked him into it b/c he felt like it would serve to transform the Beach Boys and the surf myth into something new.

it's kind of amazing they got that far into their career without ever using that title tbh

ADITL always feels to me as two rather slight songs with a big overblown arrangement stuck around it - it just doesn't move me at all, whereas almost every time I've listened to Surf's Up the hairs on the back of my neck have stood up, whether in the full production, or solo versions.

― Chewshabadoo, Monday, November 7, 2011 11:48 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is true to an extent, but really really love the main lennon part, very spare and effecting and sad, in many ways those parts of ADITL remind me of a "test run" of the style he would use on plastic ono band, it's just wedged in with all the orchestral bombast and mccartney's goofy stuff

ringo's thunderous drum fills vs. surf's up's dissonant horn sweeps

Yeah the main Lennon part is pretty moving imo. ADITL gets so much attention on the big orchestra that comes in but really it's just a damn fine song and you can play it on a guitar or a piano and it still works.

There's nothing like a bit of Lennon + big chorusey solo piano really.

the arrangement is cracked and the melody is eerie but "scary" implies fear of something and I'm not sure what anyone is afraid of in this song

I think some people are better than me at trancing out to "wind chimes". I'm inclined to agree with the only "slightly unsettling" descriptor

are there some backmasked "I am going to KILL YOU" vocals from Mike Love buried in the mix or something

The more you can jibe with the song the harder it can hit you?

I can't really jibe with Syd Barret stuff so it doesn't hit me at all - but I can imagine why it would hit some people. And I don't even think he's bad or anything. He just feels blah to me. Different folk for different folks

It's not just the lyrics, though... it's the way its delivered and the general atmosphere of the track. Whenever I listen to the 'Smiley Smile' version, I just get this vision of an acid burnt-out guy sitting in the dark with a little bit of dim lighting getting freaked out by his wind chimes. In the 'Smiley Smile' version I don't get the impression he's chilling out and listening to some wind chimes... I get more of the impression that the wind chimes are fucking him up for some reason.

That burst at 1:26 is kinda scary. What is that anyway?

tbh, when i was a kid and had Endless Summer on endless repeat i was spooked by the vocals especially on the slow songs- "eerie" is a good word.

Psychedelics when abused can make the most harmless things seem terrifying. That's what windchimes represents - the smile version is 'oh pretty windchimes, wow' the smiley
Smile version is 'get those dissonant fuckers away from me!!'

windchimes really do creep me out tbh. I only ever notice them late at night when it's silent and kind of windy and they often give me a kind of lonesome feeling. I always feel like they're going to suddenly break out into the Suspiria theme.

"Smiley Smile" version of "Windchimes" is effing scary and really good. The "Smile" one is equally great, but in a totally different way.

"Smiley Smile" is like when they decided they couldn't make their "Sgt. Pepper" ("Smile") they instead jumped ahead to making their "White Album".

Smiley Smile needs a serious critical reassessment, no doubt. Great and weird album.

"Good Vibrations," in the end, that is the single to end all singles, but it doesn't need to be on an album. It practically is its own album.

You guys are nuts. The "Smiley Smile" version of "Windchimes" does such massive disservice to the song. The version on this year's Smile is like my favorite thing ever.

As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say that the SS version of that song completely summarizes the most frustrating elements of Beach Boys.

I never said that I preferred the 'Smiley Smile' version of 'Wind Chimes' over the 'Smile' version, just that both versions are different. I like the 'Smile' version because of its sheer listenability and unbeatable melody, whereas the 'Smiley Smile' version is more of a burned-out version.

I think both are great for different reasons.

Sorry - I didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth. I was just surprised by everyone's enthusiasm for the Smiley Smile version.

"Vegetables" is probably the only track on SS that I'd rank above the Smile versions.