Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

Ozzy can sing fine. He wasn't a fantastic singer ever, all he has to do is hit the notes and keep time and be himself - and current engineering trends mean he doesn't really have to do the first two to make a good record.

Rubin has produced slayer, metallica,trouble,etc. All bands that would not exist withotu the originators, and true masters of the form: Sabbath.

excited.

Daniel, Esq. I was not trying to take u down on my post. I am using my blackberry which causes serious delays. I was responding to assholes could fly

lol, understood.

I hope this is not tied to some Ozzfest stupidity. I want a full set. I want supernaut , wicked world, megalomania,tomorrows dream. I don't want "hits". Please.

dude you're never going to get "wicked world," c'mon.

You know the point I'm trying to get across.

I just hope Rubin puts an effort into this album like he did in the '80s and early '90s, because hasn't his style as of late has been to let his underlings do all the work and he just nod in approval?

Wicked world does kick ass though.

I can't tell you how excited I am about this. I can't wait. This band has meant a lot to me since I was young, I know how silly that sounds. But they are very important to me.

You're all crazy. This is gonna make Loutallica sound like Budgie.

Hahahahaha

I just hope Rubin puts an effort into this album like he did in the '80s and early '90s, because hasn't his style as of late has been to let his underlings do all the work and he just nod in approval?

that was always his style - he doesn't even actually engineer - IIRC he does not actually know how to twiddle the knobs, etc. what he does is listen to stuff and give it the thumbs-up or thumbs-down

Ozzy sounded decent on his latest studio album (too bad the songs weren't really there) and the rest of the guys sounded fantastic backing up Dio, so I have no reason to think the album is going to be awful. Not really expecting it to blow me away either though.

that was always his style - he doesn't even actually engineer - IIRC he does not actually know how to twiddle the knobs, etc. what he does is listen to stuff and give it the thumbs-up or thumbs-down

If the Dixie Chicks documentary is any indication, he doesn't even show up to the studio. He does, however, offer such monumentally indispensable nuggets of wisdom like, "Nice chorus" and "I like the chorus" and "That's a good chorus."

His work on Ballbreaker was tremendous, though (and more engaged/hands-on, iirc); hopefully he'll do Sabbath the same way.

I'm with jon. Ozzy sounded pretty good on his last album (and really good on tour, btw; the set list and length of set were both unprecedented). I'm cautiously optimistic.

I have low expectations. If wiki is at all accurate, the four original members of Sabbath worked with Rubin back in 2001 but eventually abandoned the project, and I would be shocked if the new album is not composed largely of these decade-old sessions. And the last time I saw the original four live, back in 2004 on Ozzfest, I thought they were turgid and terrible, and Ozzy was at the peak of his cheerleader clownishness. Iommi and Butler I imagine will be in OK shape, but the idea of Ozzy and Ward with an extra decade behind them is a scary thought. Those guys looked like they were going to die on stage.

why not pick a more relevant producer? rubin's track record hasn't been great in the past 10+ years. everything he does sounds so clean and polished and devoid of any character.

i'd like to see sabbath produced by justin broadrick.

Sanford Parker producing Sabbath, now that would be something.

really hope Rubin approaches this like he did for Johnny Cash

^^^ if Rubin goes all in that way it could be really interesting. Hard to imagine Iommi going for it though

"It's now or never. We are getting along great. Everything's really good," said Iommi.

"It's like putting on an old glove. It's fantastic."

Oh man, who the fuck isn't psyched about putting on an old glove?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eat-the-press/oj%20glove-thumb.jpg

I don't know, I saw them back in maybe 2002 and it totally lived up to my expectations in every way, and I know the guys in the band still totally kill it. HOWEVER in between 2002 and now i've seen Ozzy solo 2 or 3 times and although the first time in maybe 2004 was good, the ones a few years later were really really awful - i think he hit the point about 5 years back where he just can't do it anymore and it's a bit of an embarrassment. I hope i'm wrong, but I can see him dragging this down pretty badly.

Go figure.

I'll say it again, Ozzy and Ward are the weak links. Ozzy is a clown and Ward has lost his muscle.

Also, they all clearly hate each other, which tends to dampen spirits. And Sharon has a way of killing everything she touches.

^^^ Iommi sock spotted.

Again, I disagree on Ozzy's weakness. I saw him play last year and the set was more than two hours long, something like 17 or 18 songs, and his voice was strong throughout. I think he knew with Rob Halford as his opening act, he had to step his game up, but he's just staging a for-real comeback in the last few years. I just saw the movie God Bless Ozzy Osbourne last night and it seems he's been clean and sober for real for the last five years, so he really is in better physical health than when I saw him with Sabbath in '05 (when he'd just started to clean up). Now Ward is not the drummer he once was. But as long as he retains his sense of swing and can lock in with Butler the way they did in the '70s, triggering can solve problems of actual force live.

I think you also nail why Ozzy was good when you saw him. That guy's voice live these days is not exactly ... unsweetened. At least, that's my suspicion. But hey, I hope this is awesome.

Is there anyone in any field more overrated than rick rubin?

Classic for their run of work from 1970 until 1975, definitely. I'd put the first album with Dio on the classic pile as well. Dud for pretty much everything else, although there are moments here and there which could be kept. Any live version of 'Dirty Women' beats the pants off the studio cut.

Dude you just dissed mob rules prepare to dire

Current-day Halford opening for current day Ozzy = blasphemous

also,

Is there anyone in any field more overrated than rick rubin?

^^^this

Statement on Black Sabbath Album & Tour: Los Angeles, CA – February 2, 2012

Dear Sabbath Fans, Fellow Musicians and Interested Parties, At this time, I would love nothing more than to be able to proceed with the Black Sabbath album and tour. However, I am unable to continue unless a "signable" contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band. Last year, I worked diligently in good faith with Tony, Ozzy and Geezer. And on 11/11/11, again in good faith, I participated in the L.A. press conference. Several days ago, after nearly a year of trying to negotiate, another “unsignable” contract was handed to me. Let me say that although this has put me in some kind of holding pattern, I am packed and ready to leave the U.S. for England. More importantly, I definitely want to play on the album, and I definitely want to tour with Black Sabbath. Since the news of Tony's illness, and the understanding that the band would move production to the U.K., I've spent everyday getting to or living in a place of readiness to leave. That involves something of a task, and as I've tried to find out what's going on with the U.K. sessions, I've realized that I've been getting "the cold shoulder" (and, I might add, not for the first time). Feeling somewhat ostracized, my guess is as of today, I will know nothing of what'shappening unless I sign "the unsignable contract." The place I'm in feels lousy and lonely because as much as I want to play and participate, Ialso have to stand for something and not sign on. If I sign as-is, I stand to lose my rights, dignity and respectability as a rock musician. I believe in freedom and freedom of speech. I grew up in a hard rock/metal band. We stood for something then, and we played from the heart with honesty and sincerity. I am in the spirit of integrity, far from the corporate malady, I am real and honest, fair and compassionate. If I'm replaced, I have to face you, the beloved Sabbath fans. I hope you will not hold me responsible for the failure of an original Black Sabbath lineup as promoted. Without fault finding, I want to assure everyone that my loyalty to Sabbath is intact. So here I am. I lay my truth down before you. I'm good to go IF I get a “signable” contract. I don't want to let anyone down, especially Black Sabbath and all the Sabbath fans. You know I love you. It would be a sad day in Rock if this current situation fell to the desires of a few. My position is not greed-driven. I'm not holding out for a "big piece" of the action (money) like some kind of blackmail deal. I’d like something that recognizes and is reflective of my contributions to the band, including the reunions that started fourteen years ago. After the last tour I vowed to never again sign on to an unreasonable contract. I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family, a contract that will honor all that I've brought to Black Sabbath since its beginning. That's the story so far. Stay safe and stay strong. I love every single one of you. --Bill Ward

Go Bill

I can't believe the Osbourne camp would try to take advantage of any situation. They never do that.

Not at all surprised, but fuck this really bums me out. If I lose my chance to see these guys because of Osbourne dickishness I'll be so pissed off.

bill magill to thread

I mean, I'm 100% behind Bill Ward assuming what he is saying is true, but I was really excited for this album and tour.

I'd be really surprised if this is anything else but Sharon's machinations. This is the same people that OVERDUBBED out the bass and drums on Ozzy's first album to keep from paying royalties.

maybe they could just avoid Osbourne altogether and get Ian Gillan back in the band.

Watch, the tour and album will end up being Ozzy + Black Label Society as his backing band or some shit.

This happened the last time they reunited. Exact same thing, this is total deja vu. Ward ended up playing.

Count me in the Ward camp here. Embarrassing.

Iommi and Butler need to show some stones here. Back your old mate. We were promised the original Black Sabbath.

need to know exactly what it is in the contract that Ward doesn't like tbh

Probably giving up publishing or something like that. The original Sabs all shared writing credits for all songs.

^^^

difficult not to suspect Sharon in this

If Ward does end up playing, I'm sure Sharon will just man the sound booth to turn him down before pelting him with dozens of eggs at the end of each show.

It is my hope that tomorrow it will turn out that Bill gets to play and no one will ever really know the details of the contract or who was behind it sharon.