Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

That's encouraging.

Having seen Black Sabbath (original line-up plus replacement model) in (relatively) recent years, plus a few Ozzy solo sets, I fear this show will find the band at ... off-peak. But I bet the crowd will be a blast.

Hey, even doddering old Black Sabbath would be a treat for me, since I've never seen them before. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Wouldn't be the first time a Chicago promoter was blowing smoke.

I saw the originals in '06 and they were incredible, and the Dio model at Radio City and the subsequent tour and they were incredible. Granted that's a few years ago, and as everbody knows I'm a little biased, but you definitely have to go.

I really hope Ward is involved, its not the same if he's not

The question is not whether they're booked, it's whether they'll ... make it. When I saw them years ago I thought Ward looked half-dead (because he had just recovered from a heart attack, for sure). Ozzy was a mess, barely hitting his cues. And now with Iommi's deal, I dunno. I hope they pull it off.

Ward was good in '06 post heart attack. The weak link was totally Ozzy, which was the case in their heyday as well. 70's era Sabbath was great due to a combination of cruashing riffage combined with a killer bass-drums pocket. Elmer Fudd could have sung for them, I wouldnt have cared

there's a lollapalooza this summer? lol

there's a lollapalooza every summer!

lol

I'm just pissed that the Afghan Whigs are on the bill, which means they won't play somewhere I'd rather see them and will force me to find a way to go just for them. Ideally on Black Sabbath day.

yeah, its sort of annual ritual of disappointment, looking over the Lollapalooza schedule seeing 2-3 bands out of hundreds that I really want to see, then realizing I'm not going to pay ridiculous money to see those 2-3 bands but also realizing they won't be playing anywhere else around town any time soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTOyhv2-btg

What an incredible and underrated song

I did a little Audacity work and mixed the drum & bass tracks for three tunes ("After Forever", "Sweet Leaf", "Into the Void"), check 'em out here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?bczmt70ehltjq05

Original Black Sabbath drummer Bill Ward made a statement confirming that "a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued."

Writing on his website, the drummer said.

"At this time I have to inform you that I won't be playing with Black Sabbath at the Birmingham gig dated May 19th, 2012, nor will I be playing at Download on June 10th, 2012. Further, I will not be playing at Lollapalooza on August 3, 2012.

It is with a very sad heart that I bring you this news. I am sincerely passionate in my desire to play with the band, and I'm very, very sorry that it's fallen to this. This statement is even more painstaking to write, as I was particularly excited to play alongside Tony Iommi after the recent treatments he underwent. I wanted that to become a reality.

He goes on to say:

"Earlier in April 2012, I'd been asked to participate "minimally" in the Download festival. I believe I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a Sabbath set, while I was to play only three songs."

disgusting. fuck osborne and fuck the rest of sabbath for going along with this. it's a disgrace.

ozzy's just a pathetic joke at this point.

I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a Sabbath set, while I was to play only three songs.

this is fucking ridiculous

lame.

yeah, indicates that they just wanted his name & endorsement for marketing purposes. bastards.

sharon to blame or all of them?

My wife likes to watch America's Got Talent (we all have our weaknesses) and, as a result of only seeing her on that show, thinks Sharon is just "the sweetest" and she rolls her eyes at me whenever I launch into a "Sharon is evil" tirade.

wow, that's messed up. is there some reason to think that Ward isn't physically capable of playing the drums for these gigs?

sharon to blame or all of them?

it might be sharon's idea, but the other three are willing to go along with it.

i don't know. maybe bill ward's an intolerable person to be in a band with. i find it hard to believe though, and the osbournes have previous when it comes to fucking over their rhythm sections.

maybe bill ward's an intolerable person to be in a band with.

^never met him, but by all accounts he's one of the best guys in rock. Fuck the osbournes, and fuck iommi and butler for going along with this shit. This is one of the most insulting things Ive ever heard of. 3 songs????? It's Bill fucking Ward!

BLACK SABBATH Statement:

We have decided not to make any detailed comment on Bill's latest statement. There are two sides to every story. We have been working hard at rehearsals making excellent progress after Tony's treatments and we have engaged a substitute drummer for the forthcoming shows. See you at Download.

--Black Sabbath, 5/17/12

in other words bill is telling the truth and they cant come up with a truthful credible reply

^^^

Didn't they have an agreement (similar to the Sex Pistols' one) where it's not "Black Sabbath" if it's not the four originals? (witness the release of the RJDio fronted live album where even that's who Black Sabbath was at the time, they couldn't name the band on that CD?)...

or was it 'verbal'..

I've seen the original Black Sabbath, plus "Black Sabbath" with Mike Bordin from Faith No More on drums, so no. Also, there have been lots of other Black Sabbath permutations on the road. Always business, never personal.

but then sharon bought the rights to the name from Iommi.

When did that happen? Because I don't think there's ever been a Black Sabbath minus Iommi. In fact, I want to say that Iommi is the only one who has never been replaced in Black Sabbath, and weren't there lawsuits regarding the name as recently as a year or two ago?

presumably when ozzy rejoined late 90s. thats why dio sabbath couldnt use the name

tbf for a huge % of the population the black sabbath name = ozzy, so billing the dio band as "heaven & hell" was probably a good idea just for bringing in just the audience that wanted to see that lineup, which was large enough to suggest the name change didn't hurt them

tbf for a huge % of the population the black sabbath name = ozzy

^then a huge % of the population is idiots who don't know a fucking thing about what they are talking about.

For me Bill Ward>>>>>>>>Ozzy

When did that happen? Because I don't think there's ever been a Black Sabbath minus Iommi. In fact, I want to say that Iommi is the only one who has never been replaced in Black Sabbath, and weren't there lawsuits regarding the name as recently as a year or two ago?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, May 18, 2012 8:48 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Correct, the settlement on the use of the name was very recent.

Ward apparently was not a party to the settlement, if all this crap is hitting the fan.

So, what constitutes a bottom-line Black Sabbath now? Ozzy, and Sharon on Bongos?

summary:

On 2 February 2012, Ward publicly announced that he would not participate in the Black Sabbath reunion unless he was given a "signable contract." The following day, the other group members announced they had "no choice but to continue recording without him," but also said "our door is always open" for Ward to return to the band.[13] In February 2012, the band announced that they will not continue the world tour but will play the Download festival in June 2012. Instead of Black Sabbath, the tour will feature Osbourne and a revolving line-up of guest musicians, billed as "Ozzy and Friends".

On 11 April 2012, Lollapalooza founder Perry Farrell announced that Black Sabbath will perform at Lollapalooza 2012. Farrell said this will be Black Sabbath's only American concert in 2012.[151]

Some time in late April 2012, Bill Ward was added back to the band's official Facebook page as a member of Black Sabbath.

On May 15, 2012, Bill Ward posted on his website that "after a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued" and that he would not be participating in the reunion shows, but "will remain with an open mind and a position of willingness to negotiate 'signable' terms with Sabbath’s representatives in the future."[152]

Misread part of the above as the tour will feature Osbourne and a revolting line-up of guest musicians.

maybe members of Velvet Revolter will be involved

It would be so cool if Ward got to sing for Velvet Revolver.

Fuck THIS shit:

https://twitter.com/#!/basementgalaxy/status/203532603314274305

Oh this is priceless, the new Black Sabbath website has old photos of the band with Bill Ward cropped out. Classy! http://t.co/HnzKrrrY

Related:

https://twitter.com/#!/basementgalaxy/status/203533198871887873

Sabbath fans are really letting the band have it on Facebook. As if the band cares what they think. http://t.co/2y1ASsgu

man that's a shame. I just watched Classic Albums: Paranoid and Ward came off as the coolest dude. I hate to see musical vendettas.

It's only a matter of time before they announce new remasters with Ward's drums replaced. Geezer and Tony are assholes for going along with the Osbourne clan down this path.

omg @ that website

unbelievable

definitely sinking into "more ridiculous than spinal tap" territory.