Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

wow, that's messed up. is there some reason to think that Ward isn't physically capable of playing the drums for these gigs?

sharon to blame or all of them?

it might be sharon's idea, but the other three are willing to go along with it.

i don't know. maybe bill ward's an intolerable person to be in a band with. i find it hard to believe though, and the osbournes have previous when it comes to fucking over their rhythm sections.

maybe bill ward's an intolerable person to be in a band with.

^never met him, but by all accounts he's one of the best guys in rock. Fuck the osbournes, and fuck iommi and butler for going along with this shit. This is one of the most insulting things Ive ever heard of. 3 songs????? It's Bill fucking Ward!

BLACK SABBATH Statement:

We have decided not to make any detailed comment on Bill's latest statement. There are two sides to every story. We have been working hard at rehearsals making excellent progress after Tony's treatments and we have engaged a substitute drummer for the forthcoming shows. See you at Download.

--Black Sabbath, 5/17/12

in other words bill is telling the truth and they cant come up with a truthful credible reply

^^^

Didn't they have an agreement (similar to the Sex Pistols' one) where it's not "Black Sabbath" if it's not the four originals? (witness the release of the RJDio fronted live album where even that's who Black Sabbath was at the time, they couldn't name the band on that CD?)...

or was it 'verbal'..

I've seen the original Black Sabbath, plus "Black Sabbath" with Mike Bordin from Faith No More on drums, so no. Also, there have been lots of other Black Sabbath permutations on the road. Always business, never personal.

but then sharon bought the rights to the name from Iommi.

When did that happen? Because I don't think there's ever been a Black Sabbath minus Iommi. In fact, I want to say that Iommi is the only one who has never been replaced in Black Sabbath, and weren't there lawsuits regarding the name as recently as a year or two ago?

presumably when ozzy rejoined late 90s. thats why dio sabbath couldnt use the name

tbf for a huge % of the population the black sabbath name = ozzy, so billing the dio band as "heaven & hell" was probably a good idea just for bringing in just the audience that wanted to see that lineup, which was large enough to suggest the name change didn't hurt them

tbf for a huge % of the population the black sabbath name = ozzy

^then a huge % of the population is idiots who don't know a fucking thing about what they are talking about.

For me Bill Ward>>>>>>>>Ozzy

When did that happen? Because I don't think there's ever been a Black Sabbath minus Iommi. In fact, I want to say that Iommi is the only one who has never been replaced in Black Sabbath, and weren't there lawsuits regarding the name as recently as a year or two ago?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, May 18, 2012 8:48 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Correct, the settlement on the use of the name was very recent.

Ward apparently was not a party to the settlement, if all this crap is hitting the fan.

So, what constitutes a bottom-line Black Sabbath now? Ozzy, and Sharon on Bongos?

summary:

On 2 February 2012, Ward publicly announced that he would not participate in the Black Sabbath reunion unless he was given a "signable contract." The following day, the other group members announced they had "no choice but to continue recording without him," but also said "our door is always open" for Ward to return to the band.[13] In February 2012, the band announced that they will not continue the world tour but will play the Download festival in June 2012. Instead of Black Sabbath, the tour will feature Osbourne and a revolving line-up of guest musicians, billed as "Ozzy and Friends".

On 11 April 2012, Lollapalooza founder Perry Farrell announced that Black Sabbath will perform at Lollapalooza 2012. Farrell said this will be Black Sabbath's only American concert in 2012.[151]

Some time in late April 2012, Bill Ward was added back to the band's official Facebook page as a member of Black Sabbath.

On May 15, 2012, Bill Ward posted on his website that "after a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued" and that he would not be participating in the reunion shows, but "will remain with an open mind and a position of willingness to negotiate 'signable' terms with Sabbath’s representatives in the future."[152]

Misread part of the above as the tour will feature Osbourne and a revolting line-up of guest musicians.

maybe members of Velvet Revolter will be involved

It would be so cool if Ward got to sing for Velvet Revolver.

Fuck THIS shit:

https://twitter.com/#!/basementgalaxy/status/203532603314274305

Oh this is priceless, the new Black Sabbath website has old photos of the band with Bill Ward cropped out. Classy! http://t.co/HnzKrrrY

Related:

https://twitter.com/#!/basementgalaxy/status/203533198871887873

Sabbath fans are really letting the band have it on Facebook. As if the band cares what they think. http://t.co/2y1ASsgu

man that's a shame. I just watched Classic Albums: Paranoid and Ward came off as the coolest dude. I hate to see musical vendettas.

It's only a matter of time before they announce new remasters with Ward's drums replaced. Geezer and Tony are assholes for going along with the Osbourne clan down this path.

omg @ that website

unbelievable

definitely sinking into "more ridiculous than spinal tap" territory.

not cropped out here
http://www.blacksabbath.com/history.html

kelly o's still growing out her mustache to shoot the new band photos

I'd rather see a reunion of the Tyr era band than this shit. this is not Black Sabbath by any stretch. They wont be getting any of my dough.

As for this weekend's warm-up show in Birmingham, the drummer only learned of the concert at the end of April, from an online advert. "I had no prior knowledge of the date and location, and I felt totally excluded." After about a week of back and forth, Ward claims he received the following offer: "Come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes."

"I was tempted," he said. "Playing for free would not have been a problem for me, but … I can't come to Birmingham and 'see what happens' knowing there is a risk of not being able to play Download or Lollapalooza … I had to say 'no' to Birmingham on the principle of wanting to play all the shows."

While Ward maintains an "open mind" about future work with Black Sabbath, the 2012 negotiations seem to have reached a dead end. "I hold no malice or resentment towards the other band members," he said. "My fight has never been with them. I'll love them forever. In my opinion, nobody wins this time; the band doesn't win; the fans for an original lineup don't win. Nobody wins, nobody. Even the ones who thought they did."

Arik 'Moonhawk' Roper talking about the Hipgnosis sleeve art to Technical Ecstasy in the current issue of WIRE = classic.

link?

Bill Ward seems like a guy with a pretty great attitude.

"Come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes."

This is unbelievable.

yeah. dude is putting on a brave front but I can't imagine wanting to play with those other assholes after this kind of treatment.

I hope he gets some good guest spots or something out of this. Like, if I had a famous band, I would be all like "Bill Ward, you want to play with us?" right now.

Can I play devil's advocaat for a mo?

This sounds like they have a problem with Bill's ability...

Maybe I could buy that if the Osbornes already didn't have an EXTENSIVE history of fucking people over and doing extremely childish things (like cropping people out of photos, erasing them from albums, throwing eggs at them onstage etc etc etc). As soon as I saw the images popped up in their website with Ward cropped out, it was confirmation enough for me.

When I saw Sabbath 13 years ago I had a major problem with Ozzy's ability, he still seems to be there though...

Although yes it wouldn't surprise me if Bill has trouble keeping up these days.

this is pitiful bush league fuckery that has the Osbournes' fingerprints all over it

This sounds like they have a problem with Bill's ability...

― Mark G, Friday, May 18, 2012 3:33 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Have you heard Ozzy recently?

And if that was the case, why not talk to Bill and reach some sort of detente behind closed doors. Give him a golden parachute or something in return for saying he's "retired". Dont tell the guy he can show up and play for free as a tryout-its Bill fucking Ward!

its Bill fucking Ward!

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill fucking Magill)

I mentioned upthread that when I saw Sabbath a decade ago, I thought Ward was having trouble keeping up. This was after his return from his heart attack. But then, he did keep up, so I'm not sure what the prob is. Maybe he got worse? But of course, if he couldn't do it, it's not a "I think I can, I think I can" situation. If he couldn't do it he couldn't fake it, so it seems unlikely that performance is an issue.

Geezer and Ozzy have it easy. All Geezer has to do is sleep through his rote-simple (but don't get me wrong, still awesome!) riffs, and Ozzy just has to be subtle about peeing his pants.

at least he's being subtle about something for once

By "subtle" I meant "subtly dumping buckets of water over himself to hide the fact that he is incontinent."

I don't think it's a secret I like these guys a little bit. This kind of stupidity really bothers me. But I'm an idiot for thinking it's not about money at this point.