Fugazi : Classic or Dud ?

Do you ever actually read your posts before hitting submit?

If you have an actual disagreement with something someone says, it would be nice if you just stated what it was, instead of just being a condescending jerk.

"Well I always got the impression that they were mainly about the lifestyle and not good at music. But I never listened to the music."

Yeah, that was pretty silly.

I have little faith in the value of their ethos as subscribed to by some, but I adore a lot of the music.

I'm from Virginia, so I've been over-exposed to them and have been kinda put off by the rabid, righteous intensity of their home fanbase for a long time. I like the earlier stuff just fine, but I don't think the more self-consciously experimental stuff works too well. It's neither intense enough nor out-there enough. Also, Ian's voice grates on me; it's ugly but without the sense of abandon/possession that I think makes ugly voices work in a "loud-rock" context. Like being bellowed at by a gym teacher. Plus, it feels like he never adapted his vocal style to fit the band's move toward more intricate, "interesting" instrumental work, so as time went on it felt more and more tacked-on.

One of the really great bands, and maybe the only show (ie the first time I saw them) that made me think about many things differently. Definitely they get better with almost every record and I agree that The Argument is a crowning achievement. Really glad that others agree!

it feels like he never adapted his vocal style to fit the band's move toward more intricate, "interesting" instrumental work

i totally disagree. the hardcore yell was always there, but his singing definitely became more nuanced (even delicate!) as the band progressed.

dunno, this came immediately to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNYbKFi8HVM

Also the Evens records are really fine.

Oh yeah, I remember this song! I was a senior in college when it came out, and this record charted #1 at my radio station for weeks. I like it alright. I admit that overtly political music tends to turn me off, and Ian always *sounds* like he's singing about politics no matter what he's singing about, if that makes any sense. They're one of those bands I can always understand why people like, whose chops/tightness I can admire, etc (and they're damn good live; I've seen them a few times), but they just do not connect emotionally in the slightest.

I agree though that Ian's songs on Argument are a little blunt & therefore stick out amidst the otherwise more subtle and intricate tracks on that record (Ex-Spectator is the primary outlier in this respect). Another reason that record really shines is that the third vocalist (is it Joe?) really holds his own.

And viz. political lyrics I always felt that they were generally more artful and oblique than most others (Smallpox Champion, e.g.).

I think a whole fugazi album that was just ian singing would get frustrating, but something works well about the two of them switching off. I hate to use these terms, but there's almost a masculine/feminine dynamic to it, in a good way.

"Well I always got the impression that they were mainly about the lifestyle and not good at music. But I never listened to the music."

So what? I don't understand what is inherently stupid about that. I stated upfront that I don't know much about Fugazi's music; I am familiar with them more as a proponent of certain lifestyle. I didn't say they were bad musicians. I said I don't think of them in terms of their music.

Also, if you think about what Fugazi/Ian MacKaye's legacy will be, I don't I'd be too far off in guessing that the music itself may not be the dominant theme.

it's true that people who are not familiar with their music have lots of opinions about their business model and political views

I think a whole fugazi album that was just ian singing would get frustrating, but something works well about the two of them switching off. I hate to use these terms, but there's almost a masculine/feminine dynamic to it, in a good way.

― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Monday, July 16, 2012 9:52 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hear that... But I probably like Guy's voice even less. ;-)

It's kind of a cliche about them that "they're mainly known for their politics" except that that hasn't really been true since I don't know 1993? Most people I've met who like fugazi tend to geek out about their music and put their politics second. As musicians they're pretty much in the top tier of hardcore bands, in fact hardcore purists often find them too proggy.

Another thing that gets overlooked in this band, one because ian and guy are iconic and two because of the view point poliopolice put out there - this band has an amazing, all time rhythm section

otm

Yeah, Brendan Canty is pretty beast.

otm2

Apparently the early plan was for the Ian / Guy dynamic to be in part modeled on Chuck D / Flava Flav

ha that makes total sense

This thread got me to listen to The Argument. I had a housemate who listened to it all the time in 2002-2003. I never gave it much thought. It sounds great now though! Much more sophisticated and nuanced than I remember Fugazi being, actually. I also find the vocals problematic on some of their 'middle' stuff but they work here. Is that really Ian MacKaye singing on "Cashout"?

Oh, it does sound like him on the chorus.

I mean, at the same time, it's almost more pop than other Fugazi that I remember, more fun. Some good grooves.

that's the one I couldn't get into, and tried again recently, and it sounded very dated to me, in a way that none of their other stuff does.

Ha, that's interesting to me. Something like Steady Diet almost seems so dated to me that I can't imagine putting it on again.

I like it fine (Argument), but it might be my least favorite of their records. With hindsight you can kind of imagine that they were dragging themselves through it a bit before calling it quits. Full Disclosure and and Oh are still classic Guy tunes imo. Some of the Ian stuff has a stripped down feel like proto-Evens, but I don't like the Evens much.

Ian always *sounds* like he's singing about politics no matter what he's singing about

tbh I think the opposite is true if anything

maybe cos there's (I've always assumed) a tendency with a lot of Fugazi lyrics to choose words because of their cadence or w/e

not to say that means they don't work as, like, polemic, just that you can sort of let it... wash over you if you feel so inclined

not to say that means they don't work as, like, polemic, just that you can sort of let it... wash over you if you feel so inclined

― if you are a false nine don't entry (DJ Mencap), Monday, July 16, 2012 11:07 AM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Interesting; this is precisely what I *can't* do with Ian's vocals. I have no problem with "extreme" styles of singing; cathartic black metal screaming, e.g., sort of invites the listener to inhabit it, though, and even if I'm not feeling that level of intensity I actually can let the vocals wash over me ("voice as instrument" blah blah). It always feels like Ian is singing *at* me.

I think I still like Steady Diet more than Repeater (or 13 Songs really, which is wildly uneven). It's hard for me to imagine them being an important band to anyone (esp. anyone who didn't see them live)... their songs/albums just feel slight to me.

I like it fine (Argument), but it might be my least favorite of their records. With hindsight you can kind of imagine that they were dragging themselves through it a bit before calling it quits. Full Disclosure and and Oh are still classic Guy tunes imo. Some of the Ian stuff has a stripped down feel like proto-Evens, but I don't like the Evens much.

― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Monday, July 16, 2012 10:57 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

you're like the first other person i've ever heard from who doesn't think The Argument is all that. and Red Medicine is my favorite and i have a big soft spot for End Hits.

Red Medicine and Steady Diet are my favorites.

I don't think it's a bad album, and I was happy with it when it came out, but probably about half the album is weaker than a lot of their past material. Cashout always grated on me actually -- at the time I said it was Ian's "Another Day In Paradise" moment.

I'm not big on Argument either, but Repeater is my least favorite. Sometimes I'm purposely a contrarian, but in this case it's actually true.

Red Medicine > Steady Diet > Killtaker > End Hits > 13 Songs > Repeater > Argument

is pretty much how they rank for me now, so I hear you. I actually always disliked something about the production on Repeater even though the songs are good. I like it when they play stuff from Repeater live.

I love Fugazi, but I think I find Red Medicine lovers even more baffling than people who are defensively dismissive of the band. I need to relisten to that album but it's always felt like a relative slog compared to everything else.

Argument > Repeater > Instrument > 13 Songs > Steady Diet > Killtaker > End Hits > Red Medicine

shoo instrument away entirely and that's relatively where i'm at

I love Instrument, but I know most consider it a weird throwaway.

ez snappin have you heard the albini version of killtaker that out there in the ether?

Yeah. It's an interesting curio. I'd rate it below the released version of Killtaker.

Instrument is ok. It has "I'm So Tired" and the better imo version of Guilford Fall

13 Songs: ATTENTION! this is Fugazi! DEAL!
Repeater: Attention! Fugazi now includes a second guitar! DEAAALLL!
Steady Diet of Nothing: ATTENTION! this remains Fugazi! Continue to deal!
In On The Kill Taker: ATTENTION! This remains Fugazi......hurm....
Red Medicine: ATTENTION!............this remains Fugazi.......*blurt of clarinet*....WE MEANT TO DO THAT!
End Hits: Hey, this is Fugazi! GROOVE!
Argument: ATTENTION! THIS IS THE FUGAZI UNLIMITED ORCHESTRA! *GONG*

i dunno if steady diet was just business as usual

I think they were at their best around Kill Taker, it just has the greatest amount of good material basically. Their best 'guitar' album, Sweet and Low their best album instrumental. Red Medicine, I dunno, sounds great but there's some throwaway stuff on there no doubt - more so the second side. Comes out of the blocks really well though.

Repeater, nails their band dynamics - especially now Guy's on 2nd guitar - but I find the material as it's produced doesn't have space to breathe and a lot sounds rushed - the example for me is the Instrument live version of 'Shut The Door' compared to the album version. Steady Diet suffers a little less from this but on the other hand sounds really flat production-wise.

End Hits, I dunno, I think that run of songs in the middle is among their weakest material. Fair play to them for using what they had and fucking around a bit but I don't that side of them was as interesting as it could have been. Again, good start to the album. I think, with Lally and Canty, there was something there with 'Sweet and Low', melodically, that wasn't developed or tapped into as well after IOTKT. The Argument I like more than EH and a worthy send off but I still think the likes of 'Full Disclosure', 'Ex Spectator', 'Epic Problem' etc are the best songs.

end hits is my favorite record of theirs b/c it's the grooviest, croupier otm

"run of songs in the middle" includes "closed captioned" which is totally gorgeous yo

I think they were at their best around Kill Taker, it just has the greatest amount of good material basically.

^ da troof!

nah. Might have been their best live period though - they were tight as hell and one of the best dance bands around.

I like all Fugazi styles and albums to some degree, so I can appreciate how everyone has their own favorite period...but In on the Kill Taker so clearly seems like their finest work that idgi when people shrug it off.