Anyone who mentions 'Rockism' is UNCOOL

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Anyone who concerns themselves with what's 'cool' and 'uncool' is a vaccuous, whistle-headed teenager. Evolve!

― Alex in NYC, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Rockism = the act of reifying a particular form of authenticity beyond its conjunctural social context.

But you can still be rockist while you're in the midst of that social context (conjectural or no)...um...right?

― Michael Daddino, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Could you? Could "rockism" exist as a term prior to the late 70s? Labeling something rockist can only be done in service of the present, because the future is inscrutable. We only see the constraints we no longer need.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Rockism = the act of reifying a particular form of authenticity beyond its conjunctural social context

What a non-rockist definition.

― Dave225, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Could "rockism" exist as a term prior to the late 70s?

Nah. Sheepish allegiance to Issues of Cool & Authentic aren't as bad if they're not 50 years old.

― Keiko, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

what would you call someone who slags off others about being 'rockist' all the time then?

― Ian, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Unoriginal & boring? (and probably listens to rock music mostly anyway)

― Craig, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

what would you call someone who slags off others about being 'rockist' all the time then?

Insecure. And twattish.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Wait...are you saying we can't use the term retroactively? People use "modernist," "punk," and "capitalist" retroactively without much trouble.

By the way, in this thread I'm not using "rockist" and "rockism" in any perjorative sense at all.

― Michael Daddino, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm just saying that the term itself is bound to the same questions of period and conjuncture that those the term may be applied to are.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

And I was just saying that if rock music were still Fresh & New, adhering to its principles wouldn't seem so silly. A key part of rockism is insisting that THE ROCK WILL LIVE FOREVAH.

― Keiko, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

All music will live forever. It's like dead languages. As long as one person somewhere is still playing it, it's not dead.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

*throws up bull-horns on both hands* HONOR MY LATIN, BITCH!

― Keiko, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

(Point being, I guess, that people who speak dead languages don't insist that other people's languages aren't "authentic" and everyone who doesn't speak their language is a sell-out conformist)

― Keiko, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Daddino: don't forget to add "Stax vs. Motown" to the list of rockism polarities.

I still humbly submit that I don't see how any of that definition has to do with Tracer's old thread, despite Mark S's insistence otherwise. "My taste vs. your taste" isn't the same thing as "this is real/this isn't."

― M Matos, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

correct learned-DJ canonic use of word "latin" (= real) vs punter-babble use (= false)

being taken as a MORE SERIOUS MATTER than

DJ playing music punters didn't like vs punters wanting DJ to play music they liked

= rockism (used in jokey self-deprecating manner)

― mark s, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

that jokey self-deprecating matter is easy to miss in cold hard type. consider it gotten, and thanks for clarifying

― M Matos, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

So I've totally trampled upon your definition, then? (Eep.)

― Michael Daddino, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Daddino's version = "specific rockism". Sinkah's version = "general rockism".

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

no, not really: yrs is more historically particular, michael, and sterling's is more impressively (and indeed EXpressively) generalised

― mark s, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

haha FITE!!

― mark s, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

theory of anti-rockism --> theory of "relativity".

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I just want to chime in that I was called "The Acceptable Face of Rockism" on NYLPM a few months ago and I STILL have no fucking idea what in the hell that means or if it's even remotely accurate.

I am also starting to think that the opposite of a rockist is a markist.

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I will beat Josh or whomever is my designated peanut gallery of the week and say "hahahahaha you see nate is actually NOT acceptable"

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

haha nate-- oh I can't haha

― Josh, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I should post the huge essay I wrote about rockism (or I would, if it wasn't so bad). I think rockism has a lot to do with canonization itself (ie: is canonization itself).

― Dan I., Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This thread has some good gags (esp. Gareth) and good points. But: in an ILX context, the whole argument is a red herring. Rockism in this place is a straw donkey. Possibly in a MOJO (or other) context the debate would still have some meaning.

ie: if you were actually talking to someone rockist, then you might either a) get genuinely polemical vs rockism in a new and interesting way; b) find interesting things and value in what is called rockism; or possibly a mixture of both.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Nate it was a gag, mostly. Also at that point I recognised you from your stuff on rockcritics.com's Top 5 Lists, most of which seemed to be 'DAMN AND BLAST these trendy critics at the Village Voice who profess to see value in disposable pop grrr'.

― Tom, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Possibly in a MOJO (or other) context the debate would still have some meaning.

This is like saying the only valid debate about the crappiness of processed American Cheese would be in Kraft Foods boardroom.

We're not talking about the rockism on ILx so much as we're talking about rockism in the world, and the fact that the general tone of this forum might happen to sway one way or the other does not necessarily invalidate the truthfulness (or even blunt the rhetorical force) of everybody's statements on this thread.

― Michael Daddino, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I don't esp. agree. Roughly what I'm saying is: anti-rockists here are preaching to the converted, tilting at windmills [and other handy metaphors like that] - and their discourse on rockism might be more interesting and fruitful if they'd engage with actual rockists in rockist centres of rockist excellence.

(btw, I thought your definitions upthread one of the best contributions by far.)

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

but pinefox, how can it be preaching to the converted when a thread like this gets 60-100 new answers? the fact is, ilx is nowhere near as anti-rockist as its detractors (and perhaps its defenders too?) imagine.

― gareth, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Yeah well I disown like half the stuff I've contributed to the rockcritics.com Top Five anyhow. As it stands I'm a bit more opposed to critics taking some of this ephemeral pop stuff way too seriously - - liking the Backstreet Boys is one thing, but calling "I Want It That Way" one of the best songs of the past couple decades sort of weirds me out. (I'd explain why, but by the time I'd get to the phrase 'watered-down New Edition' I'd've dug myself into a hole I can't get out of.)

― Nate Patrin, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

in an ILX context, the whole argument is a red herring. Rockism in this place is a straw donkey.

see also: hat-dwelling rabbit, flogged dead (trojan?) horse, rubber chicken

― The Actual Mr. Jones, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oh look we have to keep the term "rockist!" - how else do we answer allegations of "ILX Mafia!"???

― Tim, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

With guns, concrete shoes and the help of Big Tony.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Anyone who starts or posts to threads about rockism is uncool.

― DeRayMi, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

sixteen years pass...

Uncool

― Fuck Trump, cops, and the CBP (Neanderthal), Thursday, 1 August 2019 15:31 (five years ago) link

great revive

― Criss Angel Raw: The Mindfreak Unplugged (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 1 August 2019 18:35 (five years ago) link

sterling early work from custos as ever

― mark s, Thursday, 1 August 2019 18:37 (five years ago) link

😎

― U or Astro-U? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 1 August 2019 18:39 (five years ago) link

What exactly is the inverse of "rockism," "Popism"?
― Alex in NYC, Sunday, August 4, 2002 5:00 PM

First mention on ILM?

― the last Berry La Croix in the work fridge (morrisp), Thursday, 1 August 2019 18:42 (five years ago) link

by no means!

(for either word)

― mark s, Thursday, 1 August 2019 18:51 (five years ago) link

lol @ everyone in this thread acting like rockism is a boring and tired topic that’s been discussed to death

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 1 August 2019 21:14 (five years ago) link

man baffled by literally everything assumes rest of world accurately sees into future, pretends it can't

― mark s, Thursday, 1 August 2019 21:19 (five years ago) link

OH NO DADDIO!

― Sarah, Monday, August 5, 2002 1:00 AM (sixteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

― cheese canopy (map), Thursday, 1 August 2019 22:48 (five years ago) link

^^ not me btw

― sarahell, Thursday, 1 August 2019 22:57 (five years ago) link

rockism kicks ass

― ciderpress, Friday, 2 August 2019 00:26 (five years ago) link

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