Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

Had a brief discussion w/Adrien yesterday re the album title - my theory is that 13 counts the 8 albums with Ozzy, the 3 with Dio (including Dehumanizer) and Born Again. Sorry, Glenn Hughes and Tony Martin - you don't count.

What's rubin's track record for these late-in-the game comeback jobs? I'm assuming the first Cash one would be at the top, but a poll might be interesting.

His work on Ballbreaker is tremendous. Easily the best-produced post-Lange AC/DC record.

I like Ballbreaker. I also like Death Magnetic a whole lot, though.

"He's just a vibe merchant, really. He vibes you up. He's not one who gets involved hands-on," Iommi said. "He leaves it to you to do it and he sort of says, 'Yeah, I like it,' you know, or, 'I don't like it.'"

In Shut Up and Sing it's evident that Rubin didn't even set foot in the studio for the Dixie Chicks' Taking The Long Way. They show up at his house and play him what they've done so far. He says "Nice chorus" or "That sounds good." The only reasonable conclusion one could draw is that he's running a con job. Coincidentally or not, the production on that record is abysmal.

Rubin produced the third Slipknot album, and their singer, Corey Taylor, said this about that in 2011:

"There are some people who would love for me to toe the party line, which is basically, 'Working with Rick Rubin was a very enriching experience.' Let me give you the fucking truth of it: Rick Rubin showed up for 45 minutes a week. Rick Rubin would then, during that 45 minutes, lay on a couch and have a mic brought in next to his face so he wouldn't have to move...The Rick Rubin of today is a thin, thin, thin shadow of the Rick Rubin that he was. He is overrated, he is overpaid, and I will never work with him again as long as I fucking live."

Jakob Dylan also laid on the Rubin hate in a recent WTF interview.

you lazy for this one rick

Nice to finally hear someone call Rubin out. Really seems like he's been coasting on his rep for a while. But it benefits both parties: bands get the "cred" (such as it is) and resulting uptick in sales (however small) of having Rubin's name on their record (sound apparently being a secondary concern), and Rubin gets the dough.

xp

This has been the deal w/Rubin forever and forever - can he actually engineer at all?

I assume (perhaps naively) that he must have some rudimentary engineering knowledge, at the very least.

I wouldn't think he was overrated if he was a serious non-engineering motivator a la Guy Stevens or Kit Lambert. But "hm, good chorus" does not production make.

iirc in that Jay-Z doc RR was in there making beats like he did in the 80s. but as far as having any hands-on involvement when making a record means putting mics in front of instruments and putting hands on the mixing board, yeah.

lots of bands have started doing an album with Rubin and then fired him or parted ways to finish it w/o him: U2, Weezer Crosby Stills & Nash, Velvet Revolver, Hot Hot Heat

On those first four Danzig albums, he's producer on the first few, "executive producer" on the fourth one. Either way, he tends to use great studios and obviously hires some excellent engineers. But yeah, Reign in Blood was a long time ago.

I hope he can help Sabbath not sound overproduced. The Heaven & Hell record was perfect. I don't believe this will be nearly as good as that was.

gonna need a lot of smoothing for Ozzy's vocals, and pitch correction.....Dio was still singing pretty incredibly on that H&H studio album, but yeah the production on that was perfect for what they were doing.

Rubin produced the third Slipknot album, and their singer, Corey Taylor, said this about that in 2011:

"There are some people who would love for me to toe the party line, which is basically, 'Working with Rick Rubin was a very enriching experience.' Let me give you the fucking truth of it: Rick Rubin showed up for 45 minutes a week. Rick Rubin would then, during that 45 minutes, lay on a couch and have a mic brought in next to his face so he wouldn't have to move...The Rick Rubin of today is a thin, thin, thin shadow of the Rick Rubin that he was. He is overrated, he is overpaid, and I will never work with him again as long as I fucking live."

― 誤訳侮辱, Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:41 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is kinda awesome tbh

Not if you're in the band, I would imagine.

yeah stories like that are great if you hate the musicians who had to watch their session go to shit I guess

Rick Rubin has been coasting on his Rubin-aura for a long-assed time. Half the people I hear that talk about how incredible he is usually have no recent examples when asked for reasons why.

(I did not like Death Magnetic, fwiw...)

New album news with Rubin producing does not surprise me. Someone liking Death Crapnetic does, though.

Not really a true successor to Never Say Die without Ward. Bill's been treated like shit

Instead of a fraud like rubin, they should just see if the guy who set the dials on Master of Reality is still alive and coherent. That's all they need.

If you really need a "vibe merchant" you should be playing golf and not wasting your time. I got a good name for a vibe merchant: Bill fucking Ward

I got a good name for a vibe merchant: Bill fucking Ward

*massive stadium-sized applause*

XD

you have to give them credit for finding a drummer with the same number of letters in his name as Bill, anyway

I hope the songs sound nothing like "Psycho Man"

Nude album nudes.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:34 PM (Yesterday

Ned, it's January and you haven't revived the "Symptom Of The Universe" thread yet! OR LAST YEAR, EITHER!!

The chopped and screwed mixes that NEEDED to happen!

http://livefromthekitchen.bandcamp.com/album/screwing-yourself-to-live-a-chopped-slowed-tribute-to-black-sabbath

Was Iommi conscious that he was using the Dorian mode or did it just evolve naturally?

these clowns

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/apr/09/black-sabbath-pull-out-of-farewell-show-in-japan

You know Tony Iommi is undergoing treatment for cancer right?

Megalomania

Obsessed/obsessed/obsessed/obsessed with sanity
Sting me! Suck me!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Black-Sabbath-Never-Say-Die.jpg

Listening to this for the first time. This record is weird and I love it.

Some of this is proto Radiohead proto Flaming Lips noise prog.

Never Say Die! is seriously great (and yes, pretty weird).

Junior's Eyes and particularly Air Dance are superb.

ozzy's vocals sound like simon le bon on the title track

not a criticism btw

Was Ozzy into Suicide? "Johnny Blaze" is very synthpunk.

https://youtu.be/ua8y9g7Upc8?t=2m41s

I like this fuzz wah guitar solo at 2:41 in "Shock Wave".

I know Geezer always wrote the lyrics did Ozzy even come up with melodies for this album?

Yes. Compare to the Ozzy-less version below when Dave Walker from Savoy Brown briefly joined as singer:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2ITDbIvjegg

Also, "Am I Going Insane" badly needs to be on this album instead of Sabotage.

One of ILM's greatest gifts is interesting me in listening to an album that I probably never would have otherwise. Parts of side 2 sound like King Crimson!

BLACK SABBATH extends "The End" tour into Fall 2016

Haha, these fuckers.

Should I go see them y/n

If y, is the likelihood of a good show better toward the beginning or end of this now-epic tour?

I think Ozzy has some sort of hearing issue because he's not singing on key at all anymore. He sounded great on the last album though, but anyway my vote is no. Actually its likely your last chance to see Iommi so if you haven't already you should go.

I've never seen them. My wife, a deep level Sabbath fan, thinks it will be a waste of money.

I saw them in 1999 had a great time and got to see Heaven and Hell (aka Dio Sabbath twice) and that was a treat too. One of my good friends who's a serious Ozzy defender says his singing is cooked.