that was pandering smarm which sonic youth are very good at, even tho I like 'em...
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
Covering a pop song 'ironically' (if/when that's whats happening) is a cop-out, a safe way of admitting to yourself and your fans that the song has had an impact on you but then neutering that impact instead of exploring it. Travis doing BOMT is saying "Hey beneath the pop veneer is a proper song" but their version done Travis-style then HAS to be leaden because otherwise it'd risk sounding better than Travis own songs, and part of the point is (maybe?) to prove that Travis' craftsmanship is better than Max Martin's.
It ties in with the question on that huge long thread Simon Reynolds' site linked to, about 'indie' not wanting to draw on 'black' music anymore. Cos the real question behind both of these is - how do you operate in a 50-year tradition where the music you make is very unlikely to be as good (in YOUR opinion, the audience likes it just fine) as the music you like? (Sampling is one answer) Converting pop songs into second-rate B sides is a way of positioning yourself on the heirarchy - if these pop songs were REALLY any good they'd shine through our versioning, right?
How much does our getting annoyed with covers of pop depend on our experiencing the originals as pop? If Coldplay covered the Crystals I wouldn't give half as much a fuck as if they covered B*Witched.
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
At the risk of jumping to the other side, I have to say I really agree with this. It reminds me a little of working in a record store in the late '80s and being disgusted when some "punks" (I think that's what they were called back then) came in the store and started mockingly dancing around to the Michael Jackson we were playing in the store. But (later on) I considered the possibility that they were actually tapping into something that maybe they subconsciously really ENJOYED but would never admit to. Well, it was a theory, sort of.
― s woods, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
Haha, that's not risking jumping, that is jumping! Anyway yr theory is OTM. There's no such thing as liking things ironically, I reckon. It's just a safe way to like things without getting made fun of by your friends.
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
At best it's pandering. Though I'm sure there are some worthy exceptions.
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 13:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris V. (Chris V), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― hstencil, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
There is an ironic way to say you like things though. Another subject, but you only need to look at the way dancehall has become "fashionable" in trendy, ironic London circles - this really ticks me off as I genuinely love it and always have done... these tossers essentially denegrating it is little short of infuriating
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
I actually think this is a core point. The whole 'snarf, ha ha, look at us' attitude is indeed crap, but essentially there's a weird no win scenario posited in all this:
INDIE PERSON: "I like this, that and the other popwise."OTHER PERSON: "You're only doing that to follow trends/seem hip/to make fun of it."INDIE PERSON: "No I'm not! Jeez! Here." *plays version of song*OTHER PERSON: "That was shit and why did you bother?"INDIE PERSON: "Fine, fuck you."
But you could expand this out if you like. Personally I think it's illustrative not of the power of songs or performers or whatever but ARRANGEMENTS. Which may seem strange, but consider -- I think there's a lot of (justifiable) fear and loathing over the idea of reducing a song down to a guitar jangle, ripping out whatever it is sonically that really captivates. Lingering fears of rockism, if you like, the whole 'argh, it's only validated because you can do a folk singalong to it? that attitude is crap!' And who can blame people for feeling that way?
Britney is cynical and transient AND hooky and thrilling.
See, it's funny you say that because I'm still amazed so many people have covered "Baby One More Time" when I think it's incredibly unmemorable and dull. "Oops I Did It Again" is the song that works, and as Kate St. Claire said once, it's all because of the bassline. And interestingly Fuck have in fact covered it.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
As for Tha Irony: Beck is a big, big fan of contemporary R&B, I'd say it's pretty silly to just assume his "Cry Me A River" is ironic, especially considering he's been in such a boringly earnest mode lately, *and* "Cry Me A River" fits in with the songs on Sea Change thematically. Flaming Lips and Fran Healy of Travis have both been very public about their genuine admiration of "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" and "Baby One More Time". So that's that settled then (unless they have IRONY GUILT!)
Apart from that I can't comment because I've never heard any of these versions, except Travis' Britney cover which I remember quite liking at the time (mainly because I've never liked Britney's voice much.)
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
Yeah, I was about to say that whole assertion seemed strange. Too bad the song itself bites, but that's another matter. ;-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
POPISTS!
― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
There should be something just interesting about the practice -- cross-genre covers are usually great, an old thing stylized in a new way -- but it seems as if there are just too many tensions and conflicts running between indie mores and pop mores for the acts to be able to do it without stepping, intentionally or not, right on some sort of mine. Unfortunately dud. The acts need to get it out of their systems in their teenage pop-punk band days, if at all possible. And if they're going to try it after that, I for one would like to see them really try it, awful and embarrassing as that would be in most cases.
Is Tico Tico who I think it is?
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
Nabisco - yes, almost certainly! There's a sensible reason for the identity-switch though.
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― alex in montreal, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
it's Chris Thile covering Kendrick Lamar's "Alright" on mandolin, substituting "brother" for the n-word. it is the most cringeworthy thing imaginable.
― crüt, Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:33 (eight years ago) link
oh god I actually like Thile / Punch Brothers in general but there's no way in hell I'm listening to that
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:38 (eight years ago) link
dang, it was public yesterday. maybe they read ilx. here's audio.
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:44 (eight years ago) link
not any more, this cover-up goes deeper than we thought
― Chikan wa akan de. Zettai akan de. (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 13:58 (eight years ago) link
Not listening to this, let alone watching it.
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 14:03 (eight years ago) link
haha. how about this? http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/listen/?date=2016/02/06&identifier=apm_audio:/phc/segments/2016/02/06/phc_segment_12_20160206_128.mp3
― sam jax sax jam (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 14:27 (eight years ago) link
Had press tix and saw Chris Thile host and play his Live from Here radio show yesterday. He named off folks having birthdays this week and covered their songs with a big band . Sarah Jarosz sang & he played mandolin on Labelle “ Lady Marmalade,” and Dylan “Twist of Fate.” They also did Miles Davis “So What.” Non-birthday cover of Vampire Weekend
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 May 2018 21:18 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHNeDwp77g
Dud
― flappy bird, Sunday, 27 May 2018 22:27 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0zbAQbl2o
Dethroned Halloween, Alaska's "I Can't Live Without My Radio" for favorite track in this theme.
The "Jesus, take the wheel" line is such a mournful hook that's an aside in the original Thundercat track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8TdgBWEOP8
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Monday, 29 April 2024 21:53 (four months ago) link