Rolling Stones: Classic or Dud

My understanding is that a lot of it can be put down to Watts. He despises touring, so he ups his price ridiculously every time they're about to go out, thinking no way will management be able to swing that. Problem is, the management/promoters keep meeting his price, necessitating higher ticket prices.

I just read the Stanley Booth book for the first time. An out and masterpiece. Seeing these ticket stories reminds me of Jagger telling Booth that he wanted to do the whole '69 tour for free, but logistics ruled it out. "You think you're rich, but then you try to buy a table or something, and yer accountants all 'oh no!'".

lol

i want them to make an electronic dance album where mick plays up his creepy old man schtick, whispering unspeakable things over a minimalist groove. it's the only way forward. this is my favorite band, probably, and they are too good for this retro "play the classics" touring shit they've been doing for the past 95 years or whatever

i think the reason they are still alive is because the universe wants them to make one more great album. i think this will happen, but i don't think it will sound like anything they've done before.

I think the reason they are still alive is because they collectively have a 10% share in the universe.

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/what_a_drag_it_is_getting_old_the_rolling_stones_then_and_now

This time, before there could be any serious preparations for a 50th anniversary tour – something Richards wanted to see happen – Jagger made it plain that there would have to be some sort of reckoning. The details of whatever transpired between the two men remain private, but as Wood commented, things were “tense and awkward.” There was even a rumor that Richards’ position as the Rolling Stones’ rhythm guitarist might be in peril. Some thought he was having trouble playing – that perhaps his hands were growing afflicted with arthritis or that his steady intake of alcohol affected his musical agility

was talking to a friend of mine last weekend who was taken along to their show in Oakland - he got in for free, tix were $600 and they weren't even on ground level/floor. insane.

i want them to make an electronic dance album where mick plays up his creepy old man schtick, whispering unspeakable things over a minimalist groove.

Mick beat you to it, bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P53QNZm1U44

Yeah I've noticed keiths playing recently in clips

Shine a Light was the first time I really noticed how bad they were

can we talk about the eternal lol that is the Bridges to Babylon cover

ok, that top video in the dangerousminds link above is truly...awful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lLRD1R8GNgY#t=85s

1:25 in. ouch.

and that's an official rolling stones promotional video! they put that in there on purpose! to highlight it!!

good lord that part where gwen stefani is barely able to sing wild horses while the rolling stones are barely able to play wild horses is BRUTAL

jenifer divine 7 hours ago

YOU- ROLLING STONES- YOU ARE JUST GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS- Keith can't even play his guitar with any proficiency whatsoever- and Mick is so horribly off-key its pathetic-

the ROLLING CLONES SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES!!!

i've heard better from cheesy lounge bands playing in crappy off-Strip Vegas casinos

Keith looks deeply bored/catatonic. Mick trying hard but he is basically a grandma.

good lord that part where gwen stefani is barely able to sing wild horses while the rolling stones are barely able to play wild horses is BRUTAL

seriously, i was barely able to watch! i stopped the video 10 seconds in, linked to it here, and closed the entire browser just to make sure

I would pay more to see Watts playing solo than to see him with the Stones at this point.

yeah that's painful to see, close your eyes and apart from mick's voice there's nothing to indicate you're not listening to some shitty anonymous bar band. not that i blame them too much for not giving much of a fuck after like six decades but it seems cruel to charge innocent ppl $600 for this.

I actually think this performance from a few years ago is quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vjIP7-SiX0

I've seen the band be good and the band be bad, which is a sign to me that the band at least knows the difference between being good and being bad. One bad show I saw, Ron Wood's guitar pooped out, and mid song he simply strolled to the tech and struck up a conversation while the guitar was looked at, then slung the replacement over his should and walked back to his spot. Walked. This was mid-song. (After the tour Wood would return to rehab.) Another not so awesome show of theirs, a writer next to me who was covering for MOJO was apparently left a message by Mick Jagger himself that the band would be better the next night. And apparently the band was better!

The story I'd heard is that Keith suffers from arthritis in his hands, and that getting his playing in shape was the number reason they did not tour last year. But I guess there's only so much you can do.

I feel bad kinda, the Stones were sort of uniquely ill suited to old age, they rely on that energy, whereas like Neil and Dylan were kinda already old weirdos....and like McCartney ultimately can rely on such sturdy classic pop tunes that don't really require athleticism.....probably amazing the stones persisted as long as they did....I guess The Who is in the same boat

there are some interview clips w/ keith on youtube where he's answering ppl's questions (i'm guessing they were little promotional spots for his biography) and you can very clearly see the arthritis in his fingers - big swollen joints, and not the smoking kind

Glastonbury should be interesting. its going to be live on TV over here too. live! on the tv! all 2 hours of it...

also Macca having a young band every time out helps.

plus, the recent cover story in rolling stone suggests, there may be affects from the medication keith still takes because of his "fall from a tree" (something neurological?). whatever, keith obviously lacks dexterity. but maybe there's too much of a microscope on him, people calibrating what he can do now vs what he could do then. because as i witnessed recently in newark -- from $150 seats, not $600 -- is that the push and pull of their rhythm remains unparalleled. that's why i keep going. love this band.

effects. jeez.

Keith hasn't exactly ever been the most nimble of guitarists. That's been a lot of his charm. Charlie is always solid, Ron is up and down as support, Mick is in remarkable shape, bassist has the easiest job in the world (story goes he was hired because he was the least familiar with the catalog; also, supposedly he plays most of the parts with just his thumb, to keep his fusion chops in check). The only reasons I can think for the band sucking, or at least being really erratic, are a) have't practiced enough b) arrogant enough to think they're good enough and c) don't really give a shit. Or all three.

regarding c), When was the last time they did?

Well, per my anecdote just above, they do try harder some nights than others. But there's a cool, sloppy "don't give a shit" and then there's a mercenary "really don't give a shit."

See, there's been a whole bunch about how the tickets haven't sold hugely..

I remember about 15 years ago, a colleague had bought 2 full-price tickts for Wembley Arena (fairly sure it was there), come the day another lad in the office went up on the off-chance and got 2 tickets from a tout, and ended up with better seats. Also, they were within view of the colleague who was sat further up, behind.

There's only been a modest blurt about it, I thought, about a week ago, with massive spin from the RS camp re: how soft sales have actually been. I do know the last time they played here, and end of the season football stadium date where the temp. dropped down to the low 50s, maybe lower, the stadium was supposedly half full.

also wonder if mick taylor isn't along mostly as insurance, in case keith doesn't feel up to finishing a particular gig.

(story goes he was hired because he was the least familiar with the catalog; also, supposedly he plays most of the parts with just his thumb, to keep his fusion chops in check)

Hadn't heard that about Jones' lack of familiarity with the catalog, but the choice of bassist was left completely up to Watts.

So are you guys buying Mikal Gilmore's story that Keith's drinking and/or arthritis have taken a toll on his ability to play?

How did you research for the audition?

I didn't research much. Basically, I got a few of their "best of" records and listened and played along. Instead of learning Bill Wyman's parts verbatim and then trying to sound like him, I learned the form of the songs and the general shape of the bass lines, and then I added my own interpretations. I felt it was important to play in my own style so they would be hiring me for me. On certain songs, however, I play the lines note-for- note because they're essential parts--like in "Start Me Up" and "Satisfaction."

it's been a long run for keith though, all things considered xpost.

bob dylan said that the rolling stones ceased being "the rolling stones" once bill left, and that they are now a "second rate funk band" or something like that. this was in an interview.

Interesting re: Jones quote.

So are you guys buying Mikal Gilmore's story that Keith's drinking and/or arthritis have taken a toll on his ability to play?

Maybe a combination of the two, but certainly the latter. I'd been hearing that from people who would know for a couple of years.

Man, I've got a couple of awesome Keith drinking stories. The first was told to me by Taylor Hackford, who directed "Hail! Hail! Rock n Roll." He had visited Keith's house, and of course, the drinking began early. But just when Hackford was ready to call it a day (morning?) Keith decided to go horse riding, and Hackford sensibly bowed out and watched rather than, you know, die. He (like others) determined that what kills so many, like Gram Parsons, is trying to keep up with Keith when you should really know when the quit.

The other was this video director, or producer?, who wanted to use a Stones video in one of those Director's Series DVD collections. He shows up to Keith's house in Connecticut, and is surprised at the lack of security or anything. In fact, Keith answered the door himself and invited him in. I guess someone had given him a new satellite radio system, and he was fascinated with it, so he and this producer whose name I forget spent a few hours drinking and playing with the new toy. Then, after all that time had passed, Keith turns to him and asks, politely: "So, who are you, and what can I do for you?"

Bob Dylan has said he thinks The Rolling Stones aren't "real" enough without original bassist Bill Wyman in the band.

In an interview with MTV producer Bill Flanagan to promote his new album 'Together Through Life', Dylan said he regards The Rolling Stones as a mere "funk band" without Wyman on board.

The bassist quit the band in 1990, after nearly three decades service.

"I'm not saying they don't keep going, but they need Bill," he said. "Without him they're a funk band. They'll be the real Rolling Stones when they get Bill back."

Earlier in the interview, Dylan said he thinks The Rolling Stones are "pretty much finished," reports Bobdylan.com.

Flanagan then accused Dylan of being stuck in the '80s, before asking him if he really thinks The Rolling Stones are finished as a band.

"Of course not, they're far from finished," Dylan replied. "The Rolling Stones are truly the greatest rock and roll band in the world and always will be. The last too.

"Everything that came after them, metal, rap, punk, new wave, pop-rock, you name it...you can trace it all back to The Rolling Stones. They were the first and the last and no one's ever done it better."

quite generous, I reckons... (re: Dylan Quote)

xpost I think if you're coming off of Miles Davis, you don't need to put a lot of thought into the Stones.

his forefinger and middle finger look pretty fucked up, and this is from 9 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X6S34luGuE

smoking & drinking a lot is obv not going to do much good for an inflammatory disease

I remember talking with people about Richards in the Scorsese "Blues" series on PBS (from a couple years after that clip) and how none of us could get past how warped his hands were. Can't find any clips on youtube (other than one w/Clapton).

Rolling Stones C*cksucker Blues:
http://www.nga.gov/content/ngaweb/calendar/film-programs/artfilms/towardCS.html

Free showing of this 1972 Robert Frank directed doc that supposedly can't be shown in commercial theatres and such, is on view Saturday afternoon at the National Gallery of Art in Washington DC. Y'all should come see it. I liked it when I saw it there many years back

But maybe it wasn't that good. I also see folks have dismissed it on various threads

they come off as total assholes in it imho so in that sense it's worthwhile/interesting

i think it's a very accurate account of life on the road, which means it gets boring in places and is at times repellent, which is as it should be. a great piece of journalism, and the music kills.