King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

I was blown away to read in the aforementioned Mojo interview that Fripp pretty much charts everything out, Zappa-style.

?

that may be the only 73-74 era KC set I've ever heard without "Easy Money"

Truncated for TV I'd imagine. Blazing version of starless and nice sound quality

Man, the Blind Lemon Pledge-style solo kills me every time. Also the ICAVDBP (International Conspiracy Against Visual Depictions of Bass Playing) reaches evil new heights here, offering more close-up screen time to Wetton's ass than his right hand.

the proper scarey 70s Crimson

heh

?

All the KC guitar parts and stuff, they're apparently written out and notated, composed, as opposed to worked out live or in the studio.

BTW, have any of you heard or heard of this guitarist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1iJfr0DqUk#!

She's awesome.

But he only writes out his guitar parts? Or does/did he write out the whole composition and give parts to everyone? I thought that's what Zappa did but didn't think KC worked that way.

I wonder if he wrote out his solos on Eno and Bowie albums.

(Why does that blow your mind?)

Thanks for Mollestad link btw!

Given how famous 73-4 KC in particular were for their improvs I very much doubt everything was written down.

Josh, your reading comprehension is questionable. In the interview (http://www.moredarkthanshark.org/eno_int_mojo-feb13.html), he's talking about composing material in written form, not handing out written charts for everyone to follow.

man watching a young Bruford is really something else

Yeah that was the highlight of the vid. Watching him dig into the fast section of lament I felt like I was really hearing him think "this is the music I really want to be playing", as corny as that sounds.

My reading comprehension is terrible! But:

So how, as main writer, did Fripp compose? "Manuscript, pencil, guitar and write it down as it flows by," he says. He nips into the next room and comes back with a sheaf of handwritten scores, which he presents. "Can you remember Red, the opening bars? It was originally part of Blue and it's written here. There are bass parts written out for Red, for strings and overdubbing. Here you have The Battle Of Glass Tears and Cirkus from Lizard. The original parts for Schizoid Man are in here, the fast breaks," he says, singing along.

Here he's talking about writing things out for guitar, blues, strings ... what did I miss? What's the difference between composing in written form and handing out charts? Why else would he be notating bass, strings, etc?

I wonder if he wrote out his solos on Eno and Bowie albums.

Famously, these were all pretty much spontaneous, The solos in "St. Elmo's Fire" and "Baby's On Fire" were the product of minimal direction. Much of "Heroes" was pretty one take, iirc, and I believe "Scary Monsters" he cranked out in a couple of quick sessions with very little forethought.

The Belew story I heard re: "Lodger," by the way, was similar to how he said "Remain in Light" was made; he was basically told to just play a bunch of stuff, and those noises and solos were moved around and stuck in weird places during the editing process, well after he was done.

So that quote is the second time I've heard mention of "Blue" which obviously never came to fruition. Does anyone on this thread know more of that story? Did it become something else later?

He's got scores with bits and parts, not full arrangements. He writes down the bits to remember them and show them to the players -- which is normal, and a very different thing from handing out full complete arrangements. He liked to compose with pen and paper, other dudes use tape recorders. He never says he wrote out everybody's parts, and none of those players would have stayed if he had.

Eh, I think you're being as pedantic as I was being generalizing. The fact that he writes out any of his parts is impressive to me, but perfectly in line with his precise nature.

none of those players would have stayed if he had.

Though to be fair, stability and longevity has not been a KC hallmark!

Are the three early '80s records the longest he went with the same line-up?

You can't forget that Fripp comes from a supper club jazz kind of background, and non-specific charts are pretty normal for that world.

I wonder how imposing the King Crimson fake book is.

xp - it definitely was. Beat and Power to Believe are the only two KC albums with the same lineup as the previous one (and Beat is IIRC the only studio album without a title track)

I think the Fripp/Belew/Gunn/Mastelotto lineup might win out timewise, but just barely.

Yeah, if so, just barely. Never liked Gunn in the band ...

I still say the abandoned (final?) lineup with Gavin Harrison from Porcupine Tree was soooooooo awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtTUxPPGp-c

This is more indicative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w0vxQ-ueCI

xp - it definitely was. Beat and Power to Believe are the only two KC albums with the same lineup as the previous one (and Beat is IIRC the only studio album without a title track)

― frogbs, Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:57 PM (32 minutes ago)

TOAPP has the same lineup as Beat

I was gonna say

Yeah, if so, just barely. Never liked Gunn in the band

I didn't either until I started really digging into the Projekcts. I appreciated him alot more afterward. What I have never cottoned to is Mastelotto.

Again, seeing him with Harrison made all the difference.

You know, I don't think I've ever had more reservations, exceptions, and conditions about music that I've loved so wholeheartedly than with KC. And nearly everyone I've ever encountered who's a diehard fan has expressed something similar. I think it must be inbuilt.

Was that the only show/stand that band ever did?

You know, I don't think I've ever had more reservations, exceptions, and conditions about music that I've loved so wholeheartedly than with KC. And nearly everyone I've ever encountered who's a diehard fan has expressed something similar. I think it must be inbuilt.

― "Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:45 PM (54 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. they are the worst best band.

great lyrics tho gotta give em that

xxxp - oh yeah, I knew that. originally I was going to say that the 80's band was the only consistent one but I had forgotten about the 00's band. pretty nuts that it took them that long to get any stability on that front. it's not like Yes where they'd replace one member per album or whatever either, the 1969-1974 KC was really four different bands and then the Discipline era was something else entirely.

hence why talking about this band can be difficult. in general when most people refer to "King Crimson" they think of the 73-74 band. I had a shirt with the back cover of Red and someone told me they loved Crimson back in the day but thought the cover was referring to Discipline...he said "they had a red one, a blue one, and a yellow one", completely unaware of their first run.

ha! I love that era but it really does feel like a different band to me

great lyrics tho gotta give em that

― Pasty, British & Shit (wins), Thursday, May 23, 2013 1:49 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I assumed he was being very dryly sarcastic

You never can tell where KC fans are going to come down

not trolling, no, just assuming that all other fans will know immediately that I'm not in earnest. I was trying to prove your point!

I love it
There are a few lyrics here and there that I like.

that '70s video is great, just watching bruford play starless & bible black. i had forgotten how much i've stolen from him.

Also love that he's playing a four-piece kit. Suck it, other prog drummers.

his kit sounds amazing too.

Clang!

One of my favorite bits on the Great Deceiver is right before one track somebody screams "EAT YOUR HEART OUT BILLY COBHAM"

Where seldom is heard, a discouraging word ...

http://electricflower.ucoz.com/_bl/0/95868.jpg

Because any excuse is a good excuse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYBTBv_h4CQ

In an interview Cobham once said he practiced his press rolls on a quarter placed against a wall, his sticks keeping it stuck there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYBTBv_h4CQ