King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

There are female fans of everything. It's just sort of rarified. For men, too, I think: Crimson gets pretty geeky, even by geek standards, which is why here they play to 1000 people max rather than to 10,000.

Fripp's relationship with women has made me lol, sob, and cringe in equal measures. Wife jokes are just a window into other people's lives, I guess, but they don't reflect my experience as a wife.

Kinda wish there were more female prog musicians out there, the ones we have totally rule

Wife jokes are just a window into other people's lives, I guess, but they don't reflect my experience as a wife.

If you think that joke was at the expense of the wife, well...OK then.

it all depends on the joke!

xpost If we're talking about it, some of the best and most popular female acts never really get pegged as prog. Think Kate Bush, or St. Vincent, or Bat for Lashes, or Joanna Newsom, etc., who are totally prog but rarely defined as such. Such is the wiggly/useless nature of the term.

FWIW, my wife would actually totally tolerate King Crimson. Just not 18 hours in a row, especially "Red"-era!

Bjork is prog afaic

I was thinking of Newsom. Part of the problem is that I don't really know what 'prog' means anymore. If you open up the floodgates to including groups like Radiohead and Bjork then I think the scene is way more diverse. Which I think is fine, but I know a lot of people think it isn't really prog unless you're imitating Yes or something.

It's kind of a self-reinforcing feedback loop - "girls don't like prog" + "if/when girls start showing up, it's not prog."

xpost Yeah, I think prog-proof is sort of a pseudo tautology: it is prog if it sounds like Yes or Genesis.

"Prog" magazine, which I get for free from my local record store when no one else buys that month's copy, has a column called something like "Prog or Not Prog?"where readers debate the prog bona fides of bands like Talk Talk and XTC.

well I don't think that anyone doubts that say, Rennaissance is prog. but I think 'what is prog in 2013' is a pretty open question

"Prog" magazine, which I get for free from my local record store when no one else buys that month's copy,

love this

haha i've been known to drop the $15 or whatever for an import copy of Prog, but i always feel gross after i do

We talked about women in prog a little while ago (Froggie's Poll?). Kate Bush was on Prog magazine's cover and some of her band and collaborators were from prog (Gabriel, a Procol Harum guy and a few others I'm sure). I watched the Romantic Warriors: Rock In Opposition dvd a few months ago and there was quite a lot of women in it (I highly recommend the dvd).

About the "women dont like it" cliche. People used to use that to dismiss all sorts of things that now have large female fanbases (videogames, metal, pretty much anything that seems geeky). I dont think there really is much left unless it is actively hostile to women.

A lot of people used to make a lot of distinctions about men vs women in the type of porn/erotica they enjoy but these days I dont think there are many safe statements you can make on that either.
I've seen a lot of art and writing that I was surprised that a woman created it but I guess there's no real reason I should be surprised.

Yeah, the whole "women don't like prog" thing is ridiculous; I tackled it when Rob Sheffield reviewed a book on prog for the New York Times. I would never say "women don't like x" for the same reason that I, when wearing my critic hat, never use the word "we."

ugh that sheffield article i forgot that thing

Nice blog post. Mick Mercer wrote similar stuff to Sheffield that annoyed me and made it sound as if he has never listened to any of the stuff he mocks for long enough to make an informed opinion. For example, he didnt understand why Peter Hammill/VDGG got called prog; but anyone with any familiarity of the genre could see it.

a fair number of women at the last steven wilson show I attended.

Holy living fuck the central park '74 show. I am hearing it right now for the first time. The sound is not as good as Asbury but it's not terrible and jesus krogstad the performance...!!!

Also, I revisited the two Muir KCCC releases I own: the Beat Club Bremen one is in half-decent sound but is frustratingly brief; it's the Guildford one that's really really roughly recorded, frustratingly so as you can hear Muir doing mad things you can't quite make out. (Love the waterwhistle on 'Book of Saturday').

ugghhh this Fracture KILLS

Why can't I buy this box set ;_;

Central Park is such a blistering show it makes you long for a better recording. Seconding that version of Fracture--I think it's the best one I have ever heard. I'm pretty sure that's the one I put on my comp.

show just ended. I'm speechless.

This was the new version from the Red box, btw. I found a DL on some message board that was way too huge in file size to grab entire, and figured if I was only gonna hear one disc it should be the central park one. No idea if this is an improvement sound wise on the previous release but I found it listenable (2x better than the Guildford disc w Muir, for example).

Hmmm I would not mind hearing that....

so it's this one? http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=5&show=422
i believe i've only heard some of it on sparkle motion's comps, i should probably check out the whole thing...

Yes that one.

Is the audio on the Road to Red version supposed to be additionally spruced up?

Will have to reread that epic article linked a few days ago up thread -- I'm sure he addresses it.

From AAJ-

Even the final show in Central Park—sourced from an audience recording because, for some reason, a soundboard recording was not made that night—sounds surprisingly good, with clarity between the instruments and the only thing giving it away being the audience noise around the taper.

From DGM-

incomplete recording Disc 20 taken from a bootleg cassette recording. Audio restored at DGM by David Singleton and Alex R Mundy. Previously available via mail order as part of King Crimson Collectors’ Club series 10 (2000)

So it sounds like there's no additional tweaking. Still an amazing document.

And worth the 10 bucks to download from DGM by far.

I think of the 21 or whatever discs on this thing, maybe only ... 4 discs worth have been totally unreleased in any form? DGM has been busy.

Central Park show on headphones is great--you hear one dude yelling for Cirkus inbetween songs, another requesting Cat Food, and part of a conversation that ends with a guy telling somebody "let me put it this way... I'll take their record over the Mahavishnu record." Cerberus is a pretty surprising improv, a lot of different directions there. And the highlights with the rest of the set are well known--the afformentioned Fracture and a totally demonic Talking Drum/LTIA II.

Also, I found this which I had never seen before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXA-j9az2NI

goddammit I am now in that K(C)-hole where nothing seems to matter but live recordings of this crimson lineup.

DGM's sharity-squashers are rly good btw, that set of links from which I gleaned the ctrl park disc was already killed when I got home from work last night. Good business on their part cuz now I want to pay to DL a bunch of shit from their site.

Finished Central Park this morning--goddamn that version of Starless is just a killer. Bruford's slow-echo cowbell in the middle section is hilarious.

I think I'll seek out the Fort Worth show next-- Tarrant County Convention Center was a hot venue in the 70s.

Just gotta note here that the extended Philly Boy Roy riff on last night's final Best Show regarding "my worst enemy...Robert Fripp" was some kinda genius. Including how Fripp ruined Daryl Hall's Sacred Songs, a reference to an actual early eighties KC show in Philadelphia, the abusive strongarm ways of Tony Levin and an unfortunate Guitar Workshop incident some years later.

"Tom, have you ever been beaten by a spanking machine made of fifty guys with Ovation acoustic guitars?...It's made me a shy lover until this day."

Can be listened to here, I want to say it starts about halfway through but I haven't checked.

http://wfmu.org/listen.m3u?show=53635&archive=93040
http://wfmu.org/flashplayer.php?version=2&show=53635&archive=93039

xpost Fort Worth and Houston were the others I was gonna try'n summon if them links weren't dead. Based on that lengthy jazz site review.

DGM's sharity-squashers are rly good btw, that set of links from which I gleaned the ctrl park disc was already killed when I got home from work last night.

I like to imagine Fripp doing this personally, or at least taking pleasure in overseeing the interns as they send takedown notices

Haha totally

I wonder if he uses some bizarre self-brewed non-QWERTY layout.

'My keyboard is tuned in straight sixths'

New Standard QWERTY.

lol wow, some of this central park 74 gig is insane. "improv>cerberus" ... holy shit!

right? RIGHT????

how much $$ is that road to red box set anyway haha

DONT SAY THAT TO ME RIGHT NOW o_O

nevermind i'm just going to get this blanket
http://cdn.nexternal.com/dgm/images/14729%209%20Album%20Blanket%20low%20res.jpg
Can't decide which album cover is your favorite? Decorate your home or office, or surprise your bed, with this full color blanket showcasing multiple King Crimson album covers. This 5' x 3.5' blanket features nine KC covers and utilizes the latest in direct to garment printing. This one-of-a-kind blanket is available special order. Please allow 2-3 weeks for this item to be shipped. Rush orders may be possible by contacting us at mailor✧✧✧@dgml✧✧✧.c✧✧.

and this cutting board too
http://cdn.nexternal.com/dgm/images/cutting%20board.jpg
You're sure to enjoy cooking more with your brand new Schizoid face cutting board. The screaming visage looking up at you, encouraging you to cut those veggies, your food is bound to taste better. Your counter will look prettier too.

This 1/8" Thick x 11 1/2" L x 7 3/4" W cutting board is made of tempered glass, and the textured top protects the full color image underneath.

realizing per that blanket that the only KC album cover I hate is Beat.

Apparently the new revised/expanded edition of USA has been pulled from the Road To Red box for separate release; from the Downtown Music Gallery newsletter:

KING CRIMSON [ROBERT FRIPP/JOHN WETTON/BILL BRUFORD/DAVID CROSS] - USA - Complete Live At The Casino Arena, Asbury Park June 28 1874: 40th Anniversary Edition [CD + DVD/DVD-A] (DGM/Inner Knot KCSP 12; EEC) For the VERY FIRST TIME - this release of the USA album IS ACTUALLY the Complete Asbury Park 6/28/74 concert, presented in a mix by Fripp with Tony Arnold (remember Arnie's Shack?) and David Singleton this year (2013). Previous CDs and LPs [less tracks] had edited versions [the improv 'Asbury Park' is 11:30 here instead of 6:50, and Easy Money/Improv is now appx 11:05 instead of 7:12] AND substituted a Schizoid Man taken from the Providence RI show two days later with the violin overdubbed by Eddie Jobson. Finally one gets to hear this concert complete and in the order it was played by the actual quartet onstage that night! (..assuming you didn't buy the $225 Road To Red box earlier this fall, in which case you have everything that is found in this package.)

But fear not, the previous 30th Anniversary iteration is included on the DVD Disc (audio-only) as one of THREE OTHER previous iterations of the USA album, alongside a transfer of the Island pressing of the LP from 1975, AND a mix by Ronan Chris Murphy done in 2005 but not formally released until now, AND a LPCM stereo mix of the new 2013 version!

OCD me hates that the blanket is not chronological, and the 80s covers are kinda perfunctory, but otherwise that's pretty cool.