Led Zeppelin: Classic Or Dud?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14GYov0EdyQ

rough mixes

fucking lol

fi Hoffman boards gwan ham over this obviously....

apparently they were "supervised" by Jimmy Page which is a nice way of saying that he's taking credit for someone else's work (again!) apparently it's done by John Davis

http://www.thisismetropolis.com/mastering/engineers/john-davis

he did celebration day - also de la soul and ministry of sound back in the day - he's got a diverse C.V.

aaanyway, here some inside dope from the insidest weirdo audiophile board in the net

A note on the sound and mastering of these, for those who are just coming in to this discussion:

If we can agree, at least for the sake of argument for the moment, that the already available iTunes and Qobuz downloads are the same source mastering that will be used for the CDs and LPs, then I think we can say with a high degree of confidence that these new remasters are not "brickwalled" or compressed, and have very minimal digital limiting.

Facts:

(1) There is no audible distortion from digital clipping. In other words, no distortion beyond what we're already used to from the master tape.

(2) The dynamic range, as measured by a DR meter, averages 2dB lower than the 1980s Daiment/Sidore CDs. A few tracks are 3dB less, some are only 1dB less, and a few even have the same DR rating as the Diament/Sidore versions.

(3) "Brickwalling" or systematic compression would produce DR numbers much lower than what these remasters are showing. And as we learned from the epic Ian Shepherd "Can you use a DR meter on vinyl" thread, even moderate digital limiting - where the loudest peaks are attenuated using algorithms that don't produce audible "clipping" distortion - would tend to reduce DR by 3 or 4dB, rather than 2dB.

(4) Applying almost any form of EQ to a flat transfer will almost always reduce DR by 1 or 2dB. Barry Diament has said he applied almost no EQ to the tapes he got in the '80s (and that he wishes he'd applied a bit more), while John Davis has said he did apply some EQ here. So EQ clearly explains part of the average 2dB reduction in DR.

(5) There definitely has been some digital limiting in these new remasters, but as the above indicates, it's been minimal. In addition to sounding good, the waveforms of these tracks confirm this: Many of the iTunes tracks appear to have between one and perhaps a dozen individual samples/peaks that initially appear to be clipped. But zoom in, and it becomes clear that they are just peaks that have been gently "rounded off" by digital limiting and happen to peak at 0.0. If this were pervasive it could be a problem. But a handful of individual samples that have been limited is not going to be audible, let alone bothersome.

One final note: The only track that's really full of these kinds of limited peaks is "Custard Pie" - and, not coincidentally, it's the only track with a large DR difference between the Diament CD and the new remasters: DR16 vs DR11. But Custard Pie always has sounded like crap, and DR-wise it's an outlier: In addition to Diament's original being 5dB higher in DR than the remaster version, it's also 3-5dB higher in DR than all the other tracks on Diament's own version of Physical Graffiti . Clearly there was something amiss in the original mastering of this track (not by Diament, but by the original recording/mastering engineer). So John Davis has cranked up the limiter on this one track, and I have to say, it's the first proper-sounding version of this song I've heard. And a DR of 11 for a rock track is still quite dynamic.

Bottom line: Minimal digital limiting, some judicious EQ, no overall compression, no "brickwalling." Sound great - go get 'em! :)

Sorry but i still can't figure out if these will sound any different from the box set that came out 10 years ago.

I grew up with the cassettes from the 90s and not sure if anything will sound as good as those

Nothing will sound as good as hearing them on the FM radio in my long-dead '73 Pontiac Grand Prix.

It's Led Zeppelin. It pretty much always sounds good.

apparently they were "supervised" by Jimmy Page which is a nice way of saying that he's taking credit for someone else's work (again!) apparently it's done by John Davis

^no fucking way. Im shocked. Shocked!

It was actually mastered by Jake Holmes.

Or maybe the record company just figured "Supervised by Jimmy Page" was a better marketing angle than "mastered by some guy."

Sorry "mastered by the guy who did a de la soul record"

Presumably, the final product is approved by one/some/all of the band members, Page among them. "Supervised by" is a better marketing angle than "rubber-stamped by."

My understanding is that Jimmy wanted to do it, and the other guys said, "sure, have fun." So he went through the archives and made the choices and the other guys said merely yes or no.

True, he definitely had a hand in the track selection. But how much he "supervised" the mastering, idk.

Maybe not supervised, but I'd guess he weighed in heavily all through the process.

I'm sure whatever it is it's part of Led Zeppelin's ongoing conspiracy to deliberately fuck over lesser-known artists as much as possible.

No artists should master themselves anyway, they don't know wtf they are doing

not many artists would have any idea how to operate mastering equipment or what the stuff even is, it's a whole different discipline from recording. if Jimmy Page "supervised" the mastering, the most it means is he was in the mastering studio during the week or so it took to master the final mixes and said "yes" or "no, it sounds too ___________" until they were done

I heard he just played the albums in a stairwell then recorded that.

More showings of Zed Zep Played Here doc

Florida Film Festival April 7,12
http://www.floridafilmfestival.com/program/films/led-zeppelin-played-here

Cinedelphia Film Festival in Philadelphia Sunday, April 20
http://www.cinedelphiafilmfestival.com/led-zeppelin-played-here/

Nashville Film Festival April 22, April 25
https://www.nashvillefilmfestival.org/news/music-films-music-city-lineup/

Chicago International Movies & Music Festival Friday, May 2
http://cimmfest.org/cimmfest-2014-initial-line-up-announcement/

College Park Arts Exchange (near UofMD, free admission) Friday, May 9
http://cpae.org/node/503

DC Record Fair - Artisphere in Arlington, VA Sunday, June 1
http://www.artisphere.com/calendar/event-details/Film-New-Media/LED-ZEPPELIN-PLAYED-HERE.aspx

A long, detailed documentary film about LZ would be really welcome right about now

How much money would it take for Page and Plant to open up, I wonder

Cameo by John Paul Jones wife

It's sad that the brief moments in the doc with Edge and Jack White is all the footage we're going to get of Jimmy talking recording and playing

It's not footage but this had some decent discussion of recording and playing: http://www.guitarworld.com/new-book-light-shade-conversations-jimmy-page-coming-october-23

first proper sunny day of the year here - "rain song" sounded like the best thing ever today

oh man someone was talking about Immigrant Song on a podcast and I spent the entirety of yesterday trawling through zeppelin -- pinnacle was driving around town with the windows down, zeppelin blasting like a crusty classic rock motherfucker

Got the Barney Hoskyns book yesterday. Am halfway through. Super fun read.

Finished the great Hoskyns book and...it's sad. Plant comes out as the victor in the end - creatively and emotionally. Page is lost in the past, JPJ was the "wise one" through it all, keeping himself professional and aloof and Bonzo...was an asshole when fucked up and just a brilliant lug drummer when not. Have heard Page stories from someone who got to hang with him like 10 years ago and they confirmed the whole "But I'm a ROCK STAR" observations in this. Still - the best Zep book I've read so far.

I know someone who is good friends with Robert Plant's girlfriend in Austin and so he spends a fair amount of time with Plant. Says he is the nicest, warmest guy imaginable, to everyone, completely down to earth

<3 percy

Yeah I"ve heard the same re: Plant from a friend out there. :)

I caught some of the "Celebration Day" concert last night. It was decent. I was surprised Plant had as much gas in the tank to carry the night off. He only really sounded bad when doing some "eastern" vocalisms on Kashmir. Page's tone sounded good though he got a little lost in places. It was cool that they didn't have extra members, etc. Just what was left of the band. All in all a good effort but also clear that they were wise not to tour it.

I saw Page and Plant in 98 and that was enough for me. Page teased with the first few bars of Stairway before going into something else, which was a nice touch

that Hoskyns book is marvelous.

I met Plant once (at a Sunny Murray/Sonny Simmons show, no less) and he was very nice, despite having no reason whatsoever to be nice to me since I said to him, "You know what? I do remember laughter."

What's the name of the Hoskyns book you all like? It looks like he has two about LZ, both pretty recent.

I think it's the same book titled differently depending on where it was released? Mine is "Trampled Underfoot" and was published in 2010.

Amazon has Led Zeppelin: The Oral
History of the World's Greatest Rock Band and Trampled Under Foot: The Power and Excess of Led Zeppelin, both by Hoskyns. Do you think they're the same?

I read somewhere they were. I found mine on Half.com (if you're in the US) for $12 and it was shipped from the Uk

Word. The former is available for the Kindle so that settles that.

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/led_zeppelin_their_very_first_time_on_tv_1969

isn't that on How the West Was Won

God Robert Plant was a handsome man.

At the screening of the Mekons movie I saw last night, Jon Langford revealed the inspiration for the band's awesome "Rock and Roll" album was he and Tom reading "Hammer of the Gods" in the tour van and wanting to make an album that sounded the way the book describes Led Zeppelin (as opposed to how Zeppelin actually sounds, which they considered a let-down after the book).

isn't that on How the West Was Won

― PLATYPUS OF DOOM (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 1, 2014 2:25 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's on the DVD released at the same time (just called "Led Zeppelin DVD," I think).

As is this, which is my favorite Led Zeppelin thing Led Zeppelin ever did in the history of Led Zeppelin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC6SwzXvyzw

^^What Tarfumes said. Plus: But now it's on Youtube! In a great rip!

On a semi-related note, I recently got to hear Jimmy Page/Black Crowes live set from 2000--it's fantastic! And probably more interesting re:set list than we'd have gotten from a proper Zep reunion at the time: loads of deep cuts ("Celebration Day"! "Out On The Tiles"! "Your Time Is Gonna Come"! motherfuckin' "SICK AGAIN"!!!!!), good blues covers, nods to peers (the Mac's "Oh Well", the JBG arrangement pf "Shapes of Things"), and a handful of the big hits/radio staples. Chris Robinson is Chris Robinson, which is good because he never tries to be Plant. The band provides nice, fullbodied accompaniment with due reverence.

The biggest issue I have is it does oversell the Blooze aspect of Zep. They throw in a couple folky numbers and I wish they'd gone further in that direction to present a more well-rounded portrait of the bands music--which we did get at the Celebration Day show, but still was within the Crowes wheelhouse when their Page union was happening.

Chris Robinson is Chris Robinson, which is good because he never tries to be Plant.

Plus, Page finally got to find out what Zep would've sounded like with Steve Marriott!

I almost saw Page/Crowes; they were supposed to open for the Who's 4-night MSG stand in October 2000, but Page got sick or hurt his hand or something. Rumor had it, though, that he backed out because he refused to open for the Who.

I remember seeing them on Leno doing "The Wanton Song", and Page was doing all these kicks and other rock star moves...it was like the next day that news broke that he'd fucked up his back and the rest of the tour was cancelled. Surprise surprise.

Okay, Jimmy wasn't quite as animated as I remembered...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzjt-lEZ8uY