King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

Sinfield was tremendously important to KC MK I's overall aesthetic – which I think even Fripp has acknowledged.

In addition to the lyrics, Sinfield was instrumental to the song titles (and their many sections and subsections), sleeve design and the overall atmosphere (the cirkuses, courts and Odyssey-esque themes). Say what you will about his "poetry" his lyrics aren't shallow. There are still stretches where I will go through where I listen only to those first four records – they are never flawless, almost always fascinating and a complete experience in a way records often aspired to be in the late sixties/early seventies. Sinfield really was the architect of that.

At its best, as he suggests himself in that Uncut piece referenced above, Sinfield's partnership with Fripp yielded something enchanting – things like "Schizoid Man," the "Lizard" suite or the whole of Islands are strange, mysterious, often lovely, and sometimes a bit unsettling ... even at the same time.

The magic of the new tour is that Fripp not only doesn't shy away from that reading of KC history but embraces it.

I listened to the 40th anniversary Lizard remaster on my way to work this morning. What a great sounding album. Funny that when early KC got jazzy they went Gil Evans instead of the burgeoning fusion route. Kieth Tippet is a force on that record (as well as Islands). Reading the wiki I didn't know that he declined to be keyboardist on an ongoing basis. Even if he had joined I doubt things would have gone too much different, since the split from Sinfield radically altered the KC sound in any case, and at least in the first half of its playing life, no incarnation of Crim was long for this world.

That Lizard remaster is incredible. Steven Wilson has done great things with a lot of old prog discs but Lizard was essentially rebuilt from scratch and features a number of sections that I don't remember being on the original. "Happy Family" is a song I always thought was ugly and hokey before, now it sounds absolutely terrifying. "Prince Rupert Awakes" still amazes me. I wish that was its own separate track.

Y'all are making me actually consider buying physical audio media for the first time in years.

I kind of wish the current kc remasters were the only ones, and not, like, the 15th reissues.

How does the KC reissue/remaster cycle compare to that of, say, Can?

Well, kc has been reissued more. But also, by now, better, so ...

All my KC cds are the E'G versions and 40th anniversary editions are vastly superior. Keep in mind that for the 80s records they used the 30th anniversary masters and added bonus tracks.
But considering that they used the 40th anniversary masters for the new vinyl reissues, I intend to just get everything on LP and call it good. They can't possibly make them sound better 10 years from now.

are you talking about the stereo mix of lizard or the surround? I don't fuck with surround, pain in the ass. but if the stereo is good I'll pick it up

Stereo. There's a great article in All About Jazz that goes into some detail about the original mix, why so much of the arrangements ended up being obscured and the approach Wilson ended up taking with the remix. More interesting than I'm probably describing here.

I wish I could hear the surround, but the stereo is amazing enough

I've still never heard anything before Larks' Tongues...thinking about picking up the 40th anniversary CD/DVD versions of the first four, but I don't know.

you should. Islands and Lizard are albums that people used to really bag on but they've grown in everyone's estimation, I think. You should absolutely have In the Court

Cover piece on Fripp in the Wire:

http://www.moredarkthanshark.org/eno_int_wire-oct14.html

xp - glad those two albums have been reassessed. I'm a fairly big fan of Lizard and can't see what's wrong with it at all.

Hm, I've never heard Islands or Lizard tbh. I've only known one person who reps for them and I assumed he was a bit off. (He HATES the Belew era and doesn't care too much for the Wetton era.) I'm a little intrigued.

I've liked Discipline for a long time but I've been getting into Three of a Perfect Pair and Beat. They're a bit poppier than Discipline, getting into Police and Peter Gabriel territory sometimes, which I don't mind. I feel like Belew tones down some of the most obnoxious elements of his delivery. Some great stuff in this show imo.

I love Three of a Perfect Pair. Possibly my fave of those three comeback records.

Man, still torn about the shows this week, especially since this Crimson seems a tad transitional and, per that Wire piece, Fripp no longer seems content with retirement.

I spun Islands again over the weekend and it impressed a lot more than in recent memory. What's crazy is trying to imagine a Crim fan picking up Larks Tongues in 1973 and expecting to hear something that sounded even remotely like the first 4 records.

To me the 81-84 Belew records are destroyed by the Absent Lovers double-live set which gets nearly every song I liked from those releases and IMO improves on pretty much everything. It's so full of energy that I remember going back to those vinyls and thinking my turntable was broken - no way the originals were that slow!!

One thing I loved about the first incarnation(s) of Crimson was how intent they were on doing their own thing. KC often gets lumped in with Yes or Genesis but IMO I think they are closer to Van der Graaf Generator or Magma, they always tried to plow ahead with their own sound for better or worse and even a record like In the Wake of Poseidon has a number of charms that you don't hear on a lot of other progrock albums. I never quite came around on Islands; to me it sounded like a record with some great ideas but it never quite realizes them. I admit though that I haven't heard it in nearly a decade.

agreed 100% on 'Absent Lovers'

In that Fripp interview he notes that because King Crimson disbanded all the time, they were never under any pressure, popular or label, to do the same thing again and again. There's something to that.

I share the opinion on Absent Lovers but also highly recommend the concerts from the 1982 tour available on DGM.
http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=6&show=513&member=&entry=
This one especially is great - now I see a lot more on there I haven't heard.

absent lovers is absolutely bonkers, like am i hearing this? Someone played this in front of ppl? kind of bonkers

did no one go to any of the NYC shows btw?

how many glowing reviews do you need? Should we float you the cash?

It's tough to say since Fripp + Belew + Bruford + Levin are an insanely talented quartet but I do find it a little tough to believe that Absent Lovers doesn't have a few overdubs. It's almost too perfect.

If it's better than that Japan show I linked, I better get this stat.

Sigh. Fine. I've seen KC a couple of times, and a couple of the Projekcts, but this one seems pretty neat. Gonna buy a ticket.

Your link led to an error page for me sund4r

that 1996 version of Schizoid is fucking massive. that has some balls, much more than the ones I've heard new lineup do on the first two nights of the tour. maybe they'll get tehre.

I saw them on the Three of a Perfect Pair tour. I believe there were no overdubs on Absent Lovers. They played that shit. Bruford also tossed his sticks in disgust after playing a clam that I think only he and no one else in the world heard on Sleepless.

well apparently they played Schizoid Man all over the THRAK tour which I actually saw (this show: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/king-crimson/1996/greek-theatre-berkeley-ca-63d88647.html) and fuck if I remember this happening. But there it is.

If you've ever seen Belew play Three of a Perfect Pair solo, you can totally believe how they sound. He's like three people.

oh I was at the tour the year before, that' why. thanks for following my failing memory down this little side road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ758xfIK4I

Is this better?

Yes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLqwmOgG5c8

k.d. lang covering "Matte Kudasai," which she says had a big influence on her Ingenue album.

Not really familiar with this era. The four piece of Fripp, Belew, Pat and Gunn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrq425iGVg

it was a good lineup. it does feel to me that everything post Thrak until now has just been shuffling the chairs around though.

I really came around on the 2000-03 lineup after digging deep into Heavy Construkction. The improvs really took on a life of their own.

I spent last light and this am listening to the waning days of the 80s band – the Tokyo concert on YouTube sund4r linked upthread, Absent Lovers and Three of a Perfect Pair. Not only did I have no idea he plays the outro solo instead of Belew, but holy shit does Fripp "get down" during the concluding part of "Larks III" in Tokyo. Tons of pained guitar guy faces and he actually stands up a little from his stool. Entertaining and enlightening.

To me the 81-84 Belew records are destroyed by the /Absent Lovers/ double-live set which gets nearly every song I liked from those releases and IMO improves on pretty much everything. It's so full of energy that I remember going back to those vinyls and thinking my turntable was broken - no way the originals were that slow!!

I still have an odd preference for the studio albums with this era of the band. I get that they were a beast live and the solos were nuts (see above). But I'd also argue that the pristine production on those records, while distinctly 80s (HELLO ROLAND JAZZ CHORUS) is actually quite good – and makes the balance much better. Particularly in the Rhett Davies-produced first two, Bruford's syn-drums never dominate or get into the way. The songs feel more like songs as opposed to jams with vocals on them for some reason. And the band tends to play more as a unit – largely, I suspect, because Fripp wouldn't stand for it otherwise.

I get that they aren't as unhinged. But just as I feel about the studio Larks Tongues, there's something about Crimson in the studio that feels like a complete statement in the way a live record couldn't.

I put LTIA pt I on headphones the other night and the way the guitar is mixed in, with it dropping in from nowhere into your right ear, then moving into the center as the violins get more urgent until the whole big riff cuts through and starts stomping around is just the fucking coolest thing.

That track contains universes

http://chimg.onionstatic.com/3302/original/640.jpg

any excuse

i am kicking myself for skipping the nyc shows but, man, $200 is a lot of money. i am super into all the live stuff yall are posting tho, keep it coming please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPKMw9hMBxQ

"Goodnight everybody. Black Sabbath next weekend, goodnight"

I put LTIA pt I on headphones the other night and the way the guitar is mixed in, with it dropping in from nowhere into your right ear, then moving into the center as the violins get more urgent until the whole big riff cuts through and starts stomping around is just the fucking coolest thing.

Has anyone here braved the LTIA 15-CD box? Does Muir's presence across all the live editions come anywhere near justifying the cost?

In that Fripp Wire interview above, he apparently holds a grudge because some Wire writer a few years back claimed "King Crimson were only ever a poor man's Black Sabbath, nothing more or less". Who the fuck would think that, save someone blatantly trying to troll Fripp?

Nah, just part of that anti-prog snobbery that was prevalent in the early 90s. I think that might've been part of their unflattering A-Z primer on prog that I recall also slammed Magma, just a few months before they published a glowing article.