King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

xp - glad those two albums have been reassessed. I'm a fairly big fan of Lizard and can't see what's wrong with it at all.

Hm, I've never heard Islands or Lizard tbh. I've only known one person who reps for them and I assumed he was a bit off. (He HATES the Belew era and doesn't care too much for the Wetton era.) I'm a little intrigued.

I've liked Discipline for a long time but I've been getting into Three of a Perfect Pair and Beat. They're a bit poppier than Discipline, getting into Police and Peter Gabriel territory sometimes, which I don't mind. I feel like Belew tones down some of the most obnoxious elements of his delivery. Some great stuff in this show imo.

I love Three of a Perfect Pair. Possibly my fave of those three comeback records.

Man, still torn about the shows this week, especially since this Crimson seems a tad transitional and, per that Wire piece, Fripp no longer seems content with retirement.

I spun Islands again over the weekend and it impressed a lot more than in recent memory. What's crazy is trying to imagine a Crim fan picking up Larks Tongues in 1973 and expecting to hear something that sounded even remotely like the first 4 records.

To me the 81-84 Belew records are destroyed by the Absent Lovers double-live set which gets nearly every song I liked from those releases and IMO improves on pretty much everything. It's so full of energy that I remember going back to those vinyls and thinking my turntable was broken - no way the originals were that slow!!

One thing I loved about the first incarnation(s) of Crimson was how intent they were on doing their own thing. KC often gets lumped in with Yes or Genesis but IMO I think they are closer to Van der Graaf Generator or Magma, they always tried to plow ahead with their own sound for better or worse and even a record like In the Wake of Poseidon has a number of charms that you don't hear on a lot of other progrock albums. I never quite came around on Islands; to me it sounded like a record with some great ideas but it never quite realizes them. I admit though that I haven't heard it in nearly a decade.

agreed 100% on 'Absent Lovers'

In that Fripp interview he notes that because King Crimson disbanded all the time, they were never under any pressure, popular or label, to do the same thing again and again. There's something to that.

I share the opinion on Absent Lovers but also highly recommend the concerts from the 1982 tour available on DGM.
http://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=6&show=513&member=&entry=
This one especially is great - now I see a lot more on there I haven't heard.

absent lovers is absolutely bonkers, like am i hearing this? Someone played this in front of ppl? kind of bonkers

did no one go to any of the NYC shows btw?

how many glowing reviews do you need? Should we float you the cash?

It's tough to say since Fripp + Belew + Bruford + Levin are an insanely talented quartet but I do find it a little tough to believe that Absent Lovers doesn't have a few overdubs. It's almost too perfect.

If it's better than that Japan show I linked, I better get this stat.

Sigh. Fine. I've seen KC a couple of times, and a couple of the Projekcts, but this one seems pretty neat. Gonna buy a ticket.

Your link led to an error page for me sund4r

that 1996 version of Schizoid is fucking massive. that has some balls, much more than the ones I've heard new lineup do on the first two nights of the tour. maybe they'll get tehre.

I saw them on the Three of a Perfect Pair tour. I believe there were no overdubs on Absent Lovers. They played that shit. Bruford also tossed his sticks in disgust after playing a clam that I think only he and no one else in the world heard on Sleepless.

well apparently they played Schizoid Man all over the THRAK tour which I actually saw (this show: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/king-crimson/1996/greek-theatre-berkeley-ca-63d88647.html) and fuck if I remember this happening. But there it is.

If you've ever seen Belew play Three of a Perfect Pair solo, you can totally believe how they sound. He's like three people.

oh I was at the tour the year before, that' why. thanks for following my failing memory down this little side road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ758xfIK4I

Is this better?

Yes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLqwmOgG5c8

k.d. lang covering "Matte Kudasai," which she says had a big influence on her Ingenue album.

Not really familiar with this era. The four piece of Fripp, Belew, Pat and Gunn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzrq425iGVg

it was a good lineup. it does feel to me that everything post Thrak until now has just been shuffling the chairs around though.

I really came around on the 2000-03 lineup after digging deep into Heavy Construkction. The improvs really took on a life of their own.

I spent last light and this am listening to the waning days of the 80s band – the Tokyo concert on YouTube sund4r linked upthread, Absent Lovers and Three of a Perfect Pair. Not only did I have no idea he plays the outro solo instead of Belew, but holy shit does Fripp "get down" during the concluding part of "Larks III" in Tokyo. Tons of pained guitar guy faces and he actually stands up a little from his stool. Entertaining and enlightening.

To me the 81-84 Belew records are destroyed by the /Absent Lovers/ double-live set which gets nearly every song I liked from those releases and IMO improves on pretty much everything. It's so full of energy that I remember going back to those vinyls and thinking my turntable was broken - no way the originals were that slow!!

I still have an odd preference for the studio albums with this era of the band. I get that they were a beast live and the solos were nuts (see above). But I'd also argue that the pristine production on those records, while distinctly 80s (HELLO ROLAND JAZZ CHORUS) is actually quite good – and makes the balance much better. Particularly in the Rhett Davies-produced first two, Bruford's syn-drums never dominate or get into the way. The songs feel more like songs as opposed to jams with vocals on them for some reason. And the band tends to play more as a unit – largely, I suspect, because Fripp wouldn't stand for it otherwise.

I get that they aren't as unhinged. But just as I feel about the studio Larks Tongues, there's something about Crimson in the studio that feels like a complete statement in the way a live record couldn't.

I put LTIA pt I on headphones the other night and the way the guitar is mixed in, with it dropping in from nowhere into your right ear, then moving into the center as the violins get more urgent until the whole big riff cuts through and starts stomping around is just the fucking coolest thing.

That track contains universes

http://chimg.onionstatic.com/3302/original/640.jpg

any excuse

i am kicking myself for skipping the nyc shows but, man, $200 is a lot of money. i am super into all the live stuff yall are posting tho, keep it coming please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPKMw9hMBxQ

"Goodnight everybody. Black Sabbath next weekend, goodnight"

I put LTIA pt I on headphones the other night and the way the guitar is mixed in, with it dropping in from nowhere into your right ear, then moving into the center as the violins get more urgent until the whole big riff cuts through and starts stomping around is just the fucking coolest thing.

Has anyone here braved the LTIA 15-CD box? Does Muir's presence across all the live editions come anywhere near justifying the cost?

In that Fripp Wire interview above, he apparently holds a grudge because some Wire writer a few years back claimed "King Crimson were only ever a poor man's Black Sabbath, nothing more or less". Who the fuck would think that, save someone blatantly trying to troll Fripp?

Nah, just part of that anti-prog snobbery that was prevalent in the early 90s. I think that might've been part of their unflattering A-Z primer on prog that I recall also slammed Magma, just a few months before they published a glowing article.

Anti-prog is one thing, but calling King Crimson a poor man's Sabbath? If anything, a case could be made that Sabbath was a poor man's King Crimson!

A much stronger case, yes.

i didn't go to the Madison show, oops. couldn't ditch out of my own weekly potluck just to satisfy my teenage self.

Review from the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/arts/music/king-crimson-plays-at-the-best-buy-theater.html?_r=1

Just sprang for the LTIA box. Couldn't stand it anymore.

also given the class lines wouldn't king crimson be an aspirational middle class man's sabbath, if they were any sabbath

Just picked up a copy of ITCOCK. Gonna listen to it/them for the first time ever tonight.

Seeing the show tonight. Got good seats. Got my prog shoes on.

good deal! the vic? I would have thought park west.

Well? What'd you think, Josh?

So weird. I know I wrote something, but I don't know where I wrote it! Let me look.

Huh. Wonder where I posted that? Anyway, I thought it was a lot of fun, but ultimately didn't justify the three drummer line-up. I love Bill Rieflin in general, but when you have Pat, who plays like two drummers (including Muir) and Gavin, who plays like two drummers, it's strange to have Rieflin in the fold, considering he is comically restrained. In fact, at some points I thought he actually was there for some form of comic relief. Huge fill from Harrison! Huge fill from Pat! Rieflin ... taps a cymbal. He did play keys, I guess, and someone has to man the faux Mellotron, though I could have sworn Fripp did some of that, too.

Anyway, Levin (along with Pat) was the MVP, Fripp's solos were lunatic, Collins' return was largely welcome (though there is no place for soprano sax in "Red"). Jakko ... I would have preferred less of his stuff. He did a good job filling the gaps, I guess, handling utility player duties on guitar, vox and flute. I liked the setlist otherwise, so maybe "Scarcity of Miracles" is in there to give them a breather? He's no David Sylvian, though.

In the end I liked the 2008 edition of KC better, since they still played most of the rockin' stuff ("Red," "Larks II," "Level 5") and since Belew's enthusiasm was only matched this night by Pat, who is a nut, and Levin, who has fun playing anything. The rest of the band was so earnest, strict and ascetic. The irony of this line-up is that I think the Belew-era is still largely in line with Fripp's current/contemporary goals/philosophy, so taking him out of the picture robs the band of a more identifiable character. It was cool to hear the old stuff, but except for "Red" is was pretty much replicated like the old versions. And the new version of "Red" was kind of dud.

finally have a chance to listen to that Perfect Pair video sund4r linked. This is fucking great. Pretty good sound q too for what I assume is a vhs rip?

I hadn't seen them before admittedly. But I was a lot less blah about the show – in particular because I think this is the first time Fripp has really acknowledged the post ITCOCK/pre-LTIA band in a meaningful way. As much a fan of the 1973-4 band as I am (and am about to be more so w the LTIA box), I was genuinely excited about this as that era represents a pretty different aesthetic.