― Sterling Clover, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― tarden, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I am going to try something glib and perilous, like, er, the idea of the bisexual in a world only just now clumsily getting used to homo and het as creatively different yet interdependent. If black music/white music = homo/het (or vice versa, same diff, whatever, calm down), then latino = bi. Just when you get yr head round it, it messes with the powerful simple opposition, and you no longer know where you are. (In ref purely the trans-atlantic community, obviously... I have not the slightest will to — or idea HOW to — expand this idea to include the vast and multivalent Asian aspect...)
― mark s, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
...I just wanted to give this line it's own post, for us to better appreciate its brilliance.
― Tim, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The Latinos in hip-hop seem to be expressing "Latin" mainly through language and accent while sticking to the same hip-hop beats and melodies as the non-Latins. (Compare to disco and club music in general, which is shot through with the Latino influence - but club vs. hip-hop, of course, is yet another severe tension).
On the other hand, Latin club music seems to be eagerly incorporating hip-hop and a grab-bag of other things - I say this, ignorantly, on the basis of a recent K-Tel compilation More Latin Club Mix 2000, which seems all over the map and extraordinary, Joey Beltram dark- techno murder beats played under salsa piano, this programmed next to Europop and rumbas, raps added to virtually anything. Can anyone tell me more?
(And like Tarden I realize that I'm overlooking different situations in different places, Miami in particular - Miami Bass was the one hip- hop scene that really took in the club influence, took in Baker-Robie and maybe, for all I know, took in Ledesma and Martinee and aspects of the Miami Sound. But I don't know, since Miami was never high- profile anywhere I was picking up hip-hop radio. I think that Miami (more than d'n'b) may have been a big influence on Timbaland, hence the resemblance between his beats and the Baker-Robie speed beats of old. But I don't know.)
― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― gareth, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
In general, the genre (hip-hop) as a whole is so secure in the hip- hopness of its beats and raps and its cut-and-paste identity that it's willing to paste in any old (and new) melodic and tonal anything without stressing over whether that thing has r&b pedigree. Compare to c&w, which is perpetually obsessed with whether it's losing its eternal twang.
In terms of "club," many of the most influential DJs/producers, from the beginning to now, have been Hispanic. Masters at Work are the most obvious example; those guys have recorded everything under the sun, from M/A/R/R/S-style hip-hop cut-ups to pounding vocal house anthems, but DJ Sneak's "You Can't Hide from Your Bud" is one of the most influential house records of the 90s for its filtered disco cut- up. Quite a ways from the K-Tel comp, but it shows how important Latin music continues to be even in the haughtiest underground-dance circles.
― Michaelangelo Matos, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I think the possible next step in miami bass's incorporation into hip hop will be MCs rapping at half-speed under regular miami bass beats. There's a remix of Mya's "It's All About Me" (R&B, I know) which demonstrates the idea quite nicely: the BPM is much faster, but the vocals are actually slightly slower than the original.
Agreed on "Back That Azz Up" - morose string-swept action, the music could almost be from Aphex Twin's Richard D. James album. My favourite Cash Money track however is The Hot Boys' "Help" - glitzy horn blasts, baroque harpsichord runs and beats tripping over themselves - love it.
― Tim, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The situation is different with a lot of indie hip hop, where the MCs cover a much broader range of material but the DJs are trapped in a stultifying worship of some pure hip hop ideal (from Eric B to Prince Paul to The Bomb Squad to RZA), placing much of the music's self-identification within the music. There are of course exceptions to this, but it seems to be the most common approach.
― Sterling Clover, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 20 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Something I was thinking about the other day: assuming hypothetically you're against the practice of stealing from other genres, which is worse: "Addictive", or Oasis's "Hindu Times"? Is stealing direct from the subcontinent more or less justified than worshipping at the alter of those who stole from the sub- continent?
― Tim, Friday, 21 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chupa-Cabras, Friday, 21 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Monday, 24 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
By "practice" do you mean "pop tourism" as practiced on the ILM board of as practiced elsewhere (by musicians, for instance)?
I'm not sure that Truth Hurts and Quik sampling Mangeshkar in 2002 is different in kind from the Real Roxanne and Howie Tee sampling Elmer Fudd in 1986: it's not so much tourism as grab bag/party favors. But we'll see if there are any consequences, followups, imitations. What I struck me about "Addictive" was how much the sample ruled the song.
― Frank Kogan, Monday, 24 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― DeRayMi, Monday, 24 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link