I hope she's reading this thread, smoking.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 October 2014 00:35 (nine years ago) link
yeah I also feel a kind of sympathy/empathy for Joni Mitchell that I don't so much for most famous musicians. Maybe because she seems to give so much of herself to her audience and seems to be so pained, IDK.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 October 2014 00:38 (nine years ago) link
Joni Mitchell has revealed some of the details surrounding her four-disc box set Love Has Many Faces: A Quartet, a Ballet, Waiting to Be Danced. Originally meant as a tidy best-of compilation, the project took a couple years to complete, as the singer-songwriter tried to construct a clear narrative through handpicked selections from her 17 albums.
i know this is obvious, but it is completely absurd that it would take anyone 2 years to come up with a playlist for a four-disc box set. for her own music! jesus christ joni, just clear out a couple afternoons on your calendar and focus, it doesn't have to be so hard
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 16 October 2014 00:42 (nine years ago) link
how involved was she in the sequencing for hits? i've always felt like it's an exceptionally great greatest hits compilation. i'm curious to see how she sequences her career now - which of the early tracks she feels warmest about today. idk. i wouldn't buy the boxset tho esp since i already have every lp so who needs it.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 October 2014 00:44 (nine years ago) link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738088/The-secret-torment-Joni-Mitchell-Unflinching-memoir-reveals-reclusive-70s-icon-battles-disease-makes-skin-crawl-haunted-stalkers-heartache-giving-daughter-adoption.html
Morgellons!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 16 October 2014 01:27 (nine years ago) link
― Karl Malone
idk have you seen the XTC poll?
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 October 2014 01:30 (nine years ago) link
maybe joni created a poll for her own songs, submitted a new entry every day for two years, checked in recently to view the results— and blam! box set.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:08 (nine years ago) link
"What do you mean my royalty checks are getting smaller? How many records am I selling? What?! When did that happen? No one is buying my records anymore? Wait, so you're saying no one is selling any records anymore? Not even Jackson Browne? Wow. What's that? You think I should tour? Yawn, next. Is there some other way to get a paycheck that doesn't involve making new music, or playing live? A boxed set? Cool, let me spend two years on it. Hey, can we get it in that Pono that Neil keeps talking about?"― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:53 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:53 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i do wonder about these geezers who could depend on reliable royalty checks for a few decades and then, fairly suddenly, it all dries up.
like carole king. no doubt she raked in millions every year from publishing royalties alone ("you make me feel like a natural woman" / "you've got a friend" /etc.), and i'm betting the checks have been a lot smaller lately.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:11 (nine years ago) link
on the other hand, maybe michael bay decides to include "porpoise song" in transformers 79 and it's payday again
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:12 (nine years ago) link
You know Carole King just had a hit musical based on her life and songs, right?
― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:19 (nine years ago) link
that's true... maybe she wasn't a good example.
let's take this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Bell
i imagine his royalties from back catalog sales of philly soul have diminished in the past 15 years.
or someone like, uh, neil diamond.
you know what i mean.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:42 (nine years ago) link
never mind.
ilx: the most pedantic place on earth
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:43 (nine years ago) link
Some artists do get hung up on decisions like that; several have mentioned that they can't hear their own records without getting distracted (at least) by thinking about studio and other situations, incl backstories of the songs--plus being insecure and obsessive: Mogellons/delusional parasitosis: http://www.ent.uga.edu/pubs/EkbomCurrPsychiatryRpts.pdfPlus, lingering effects of polio, which she's cited re not touring anymore--also if her voice really is shot, though it wasn't on studio tracks from about 10 years ago, live tapes a few years older---hey, if Dylan can manage, like every night...At one point, she said that reunion with her daughter had taken away the need to make make music.
― dow, Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:47 (nine years ago) link
I think it's about time that Joni Mitchell put out a boxed set. Good for her.
― banjoboy, Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:48 (nine years ago) link
Might not be financial as much as the urge to do something more, whatever she can. She already did the versions w strings for inst.; mostly pretty good too.
― dow, Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:50 (nine years ago) link
ts: box set vs. boxed set
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:50 (nine years ago) link
I live Joni
― calstars, Thursday, 16 October 2014 03:59 (nine years ago) link
amateurist I definitely think there are a lot of artists for whom the royalties eventually "dry up." I kind of doubt that's the case for Joni since she's canonized and also gets covered all the time. She also doesn't strike me as someone who blew all her fortunes on a lavish lifestyle, but who knows.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 October 2014 05:32 (nine years ago) link
I wonder how much coin Joni rakes in every Xmas season due to "River"?
― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 16 October 2014 06:46 (nine years ago) link
I can't even think of what Joni would blow wads of money on -- one-of-a-kind handmade scarves? A rustic villa in the Italian countryside? Whalewatching tours?
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 October 2014 06:57 (nine years ago) link
treatments for her psychosomatic disease?
and Hurting, yeah i wouldn't think joni is one whose royalties dried up... but surely even people like her saw a pretty big dip in the last 15 years. i just feel bad for those middle-level artists whose retirement was probably bet on the continued appearance of royalty checks.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 16 October 2014 08:25 (nine years ago) link
Luckily she didn't buy her housemaid a car.
― Tim F, Thursday, 16 October 2014 09:36 (nine years ago) link
Royalty payments fascinate me and I could discuss'em forever. How much would she make a year, ya think?
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 October 2014 10:56 (nine years ago) link
She probably make a mint off the Counting Crows cover, our suffering for her gain I suppose. Aside from that, I have no idea. Musician's income always break down in weird ways. But:
amateurist I definitely think there are a lot of artists for whom the royalties eventually "dry up."
I'd say "all artists with few exceptions". (Except film composers, it seems.)
― fgti, Thursday, 16 October 2014 12:05 (nine years ago) link
Oh big $ if you can turn your catalogue into a hit musical, in case any musicians here had a catalogue that could be turned into a hit musical
― fgti, Thursday, 16 October 2014 12:10 (nine years ago) link
She probably make a mint off the Counting Crows cover, our suffering for her gain I suppose.
Or how about the Janet Jackson sample?
― how's life, Thursday, 16 October 2014 12:31 (nine years ago) link
Think the income for a lot of established artists comes more from investments, not that some of them (Billy Joel, L.Cohen) don't have their personal Madoffs, as it turns out, The ones who actually get enough royalties to invest, that is--for the other side, see an epic and cogent discussion in Ruth Brown's autobio, Miss Rhythm: backstory of the Rhythm & Blues Foundation, set up to establish, collect and distribute what a lot of artists, famous and otherwise, should have been receiving all through their careers (Atlantic Records giving a new meaning to "loss leader"). Not so much of a problem with white classic rock royalty, it seems. Indeed, remember reading in Billboard, early in the Napster era, that big companies weren't offering good deals to new artists because had so much tied up in long term deals w Clapton, Phil Collins etc.
― dow, Thursday, 16 October 2014 13:17 (nine years ago) link
I think the key is when someone covers your song. Your own album, the labels fuck you over and do everything they can not to pay you what's owed. But when someone covers your song, it seems like the payout comes much faster, perhaps for legal/licensing reasons. We've talked about it before, but I've always wondered what, say, Wire makes off REM. Or, you know, Leonard Cohen from his surprise credit on "Automatic for the People."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 16 October 2014 13:30 (nine years ago) link
Well if you own the publishing (i.e. the composition itself) and someone covers it, you get paid through ASCAP/BMI iirc. There's no licensing issue to deal with, it's a "compulsory license." I think this is right, anyway -- I did study this at one point but never actually worked in the field so it's rusty.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 October 2014 14:16 (nine years ago) link
I think ASCAP/BMI basically keep track of performances/radio plays/sales of the cover version for you.
royalties checks for legacy artists are probably still pretty good. I'm still getting checks (they don't pay the rent, but they help with it) on stuff I released twenty years ago that almost nobody's ever heard of. there is, as the last number of posts illustrate, a huge system of how publishing money works, and a lot of options (sell your publishing outright / license your songs / other people cover them and you get your percentage / etc) - these options are easier to exploit if you're more famous or have written songs lots of people recognize. Hurting's right about the compulsory license.
But Joni Mitchell probably isn't issuing the boxed set because her royalties stream from 30-year-old back catalog suddenly dried up. It probably experienced a the same sharp correction everybody else experienced right around 2001, but the checks are probably still pretty good.
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Thursday, 16 October 2014 14:28 (nine years ago) link
Wish Joni had a boat named 'James Blake'
― GhostTunes on my Pono (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 16 October 2014 15:12 (nine years ago) link
I would think Joni's got money coming in from a bunch of different streams - let's not forget she's also a painter
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 October 2014 15:23 (nine years ago) link
Would think (unless he got ripped off on older publishing too) Cohen might do alright from covers of "Hallelujah" alone (various heard in syndicated TV eps pretty often, most often Rufus Wainwright's---Willie Nelson's is my fave, maybe cos he doesn't sound too fervent)
― dow, Thursday, 16 October 2014 15:27 (nine years ago) link
I guess I can see how being a legacy artist who's not constantly performing could still have some precarity -- the money can probably be unpredictable and you have to stretch it to last a long time. So Mitchell = probably not poor, but maybe needs to do a new project once in a while to ensure comfortable retirement.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 16 October 2014 15:29 (nine years ago) link
remember that cohen had all his money fucked away by an unscrupulous manager some years ago
that said, i'm sure that royalties from hallelujah (not to mention his endless touring) have kept him well in the black ever since
― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 17 October 2014 11:08 (nine years ago) link
Cohen has said that touring has largely refilled those coffers.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 October 2014 11:10 (nine years ago) link
This is an interesting topic that really deserves its own thread. FWIW when Richard Wright of Pink Floyd (stratospheric, I know) died his estate was worth £24 million.
― goth colouring book (anagram), Friday, 17 October 2014 11:46 (nine years ago) link
All Who tours undertaken between 1989 and 2002 were done to keep John Entwistle out of debt. Ironically, much of his debt was incurred because he went out-of-pocket keeping his solo band on club tours that never broke even (though his spending on guitars, basses, cars, taxidermied fish, and a collection of medieval armor probably didn't help). When he died, all his possessions had to be auctioned off to pay outstanding debts and settle his estate's tax.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 17 October 2014 14:11 (nine years ago) link
Worth keeping in mind that Richard Wright had many Floyd writing credits on albums that sell bazillions. Entwistle ... less so.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 17 October 2014 15:43 (nine years ago) link
I would read an entire book on this stuff. It's fascinating to me how a single savvy decision like making sure to get co-writing credit or just how good/bad the terms of a certain deal are can become such a make or break for an artist for years to come.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:47 (nine years ago) link
sideline, but there was already a Joni box set, guys
http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Albums-1968-Joni-Mitchell/dp/B0097AQEOK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413561012&sr=8-1&keywords=joni+mitchell+box
and its incredibly inexpensive and wonderful
― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Friday, 17 October 2014 15:50 (nine years ago) link
wow, that's a great deal
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:52 (nine years ago) link
Indeed. Would also like to hear her choice & sequence of tracks, her implicit narrative.
― dow, Friday, 17 October 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Friday, October 17, 2014 11:47 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This one is pretty great:http://www.amazon.com/You-Never-Give-Your-Money/dp/0061774189
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
― dow, Friday, October 17, 2014 10:55 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's called iTunes, and it's free!
― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:13 (nine years ago) link
sort of
Is Joni still represented by Elliott Roberts? If he's been able to keep Neil Young solvent, she should be a cakewalk.
― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:42 (nine years ago) link
no Who album has ever sold as much as Pink Floyd album. It's like comparing, I dunno, Tom Petty sales to Zep's.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:47 (nine years ago) link