ILM's Top 77 Albums of 2014

indie discourse still habitually looks down on music that "sticks within genre convention and formulas".

idk, this isn't as true as it used to be IME

I think it's less obvious in what indie music music crit discourse valorises now, but it's still painfully obvious in what non-indie music that discourse valorises. Which is my entire point.

...the only difference is that indie dominates general music crit discourse - this is pretty much always the only difference in these debates, really.

― Tim F, Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:05 PM (7 minutes ago)

i don't think this has much to do with indie, per se, except in that indie is quite popular with mainstream critics. by which i mean that point one above extends almost automatically from point two. those immersed in a genre will tend to notice other genres primarily when something in them seems to "stick out" of the general run. they will champion only that which strikes them as ~extraordinary~ in less familiar genres while more passively accepting and even celebrating their home genre's formal conventions.

i don't think this has much to do with indie, per se, except in that indie is quite popular with mainstream critics. by which i mean that point one above extends almost automatically from point two. those immersed in a genre will tend to notice other genres primarily when something in them seems to "stick out" of the general run. they will champion only that which strikes them as ~extraordinary~ in less familiar genres while more passively accepting and even celebrating their home genre's formal conventions.

― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Friday, January 30, 2015 12:22 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Right, but your "except in that" is doing a lot of work here. Sure, it's an entirely arbitrary fact that indie is the 'center' of music crit discourse but it's still a fact, and it shapes how critical discourse as a whole talks about music.

It goes without saying that these things are almost never a direct consequence of the music itself.

idk, this isn't as true as it used to be IME

― example (crüt), Friday, January 30, 2015 12:10 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd be interested in what you'd point to here. I think the fact that Pitchfork, say, has moved from being basically all-indie-all-the-time to more of an equivalent of Spin circa 1997 is not really indicative of a shift in the discourse so much as a shift in the magazine's positioning of itself within that discourse.

seems like all indie kids like new R&B and Fleetwood Mac now

d'uh

well the cool ones at least

at some point they all started dressing like the mom on beverly hills 90210 too, brave new world imo

seems like all indie kids like new R&B and Fleetwood Mac now

― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown),

if the complaint proceeds from the idea that indie receives too much cheerleading attention from mainstream critics who don't venture far beyond the shire, then i tend to agree. i see the cultural dominance of indie not as the simple and direct "fault" of indie-centric publications and critics, however, but rather as the product of larger social dynamics. pitchfork caters to an audience it not only grew with, but helped cultivate. it dictates to some extent, but in order to do this effectively, it must also reflect. pitchfork is only as influential as its audience, and it commands cultural power by virtue its editorial congruence with that audience's tastes & values. its primary obligation is therefore to its audience.

at that point, the complaint shifts to something like "the consumers of ostensibly generalist music publications should be less interested in reading about and buying indie crap", and i begin to disengage. i don't disagree, necessarily, but it's not a fight i have a stake in.

so how would you classify its reviewing Tinashe and K Michelle singles?

er, Jazmine Sullivan

i can't. i don't have access to the kind of metrics that would help me evaluate their impact on readership. the impression that i get is of a publication that's trying to be all things to all potential readers without alienating their indie rocking core.

if the complaint proceeds from the idea that indie receives too much cheerleading attention from mainstream critics who don't venture far beyond the shire, then i tend to agree. i see the cultural dominance of indie not as the simple and direct "fault" of indie-centric publications and critics, however, but rather as the product of larger social dynamics.

I don't want to be inflammatory but in most other contexts we'd all agree that saying "but no one is specifically at fault for this social dynamic!" is not a terribly useful way of discussing an issue.

Also as someone who writes for Pitchfork I nonetheless find it remarkable that people treat the site's editorial decisions as the be all and end all of music crit discourse today. As if, but for Pitchfork, TWOD would not be the default album of the year pick. I disagree pretty strongly.

TWOD would not be the default album of the year pick

^^is this true though?

I don't want to be inflammatory but in most other contexts we'd all agree that saying "but no one is specifically at fault for this social dynamic!" is not a terribly useful way of discussing an issue.

Also as someone who writes for Pitchfork I nonetheless find it remarkable that people treat the site's editorial decisions as the be all and end all of music crit discourse today.

― Tim F, Thursday, January 29, 2015 5:21 PM (6 minutes ago)

i wasn't suggesting that no one is at fault, rather that it's complicated. you have to look at who's reading & why as well as what's getting written about. and i didn't bring pitchfork into this, much less suggest that's the be/end all. i think i was tending more towards pitchfork as a symptom of the culture it serves.

what's TWOD?

xp

TWOD was #1 EOY polls in:

US/Can: Paste, NPR, Spin, AllMusic, Consequence of Sound, Under the Radar, Death & Taxes
UK: Q, Uncut, The Line of Best Fit
Elsewhere: Sonic (Sweden), Mondosonoro-Intl (Spain), OOR (Netherlands), Rumba (Finland), De Morgen (Belgium), Kalporz (Italy), Humo (Belgium), Dagsavisen (Norway), Dagbladet-Intl (Norway), Kindamusik (Netherlands), Ondarock (Italy), Pattentests (Germany), Storia Della Musica (Italy)

To be honest, it says more about how many music journalists may rely on others to do their filtering than the album itself.

ah okay that's a lot
congrats to war on drugs on all their success, wishing u years of good health & choice bud

To be honest, it says more about how many music journalists may rely on others to do their filtering than the album itself.

this is my big takeaway from the whole thing

can someone make a "just the countdown" post

77 BABYMETAL Babymetal [236 points, 8 votes, 1 first place vote]
76 CHER LLOYD Sorry I'm Late [239 points, 10 votes, 1 first place vote]
75 MICA LEVI Under the Skin: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack [242 points, 10 votes, 1 first place vote]
74 NOURA MINT SEYMALI Tzenni [243 points, 8 votes]
73 REAL ESTATE Atlas [254 points, 9 votes]
72 CALL SUPER Suzi Ecto [255 points, 11 votes]
71 STURGILL SIMPSON Metamodern Sounds in Country Music [256 points, 10 votes]
70 NINOS DU BRASIL Novos Mistérios [258 points, 9 votes]
69 OUGHT More Than Any Other Day [262 points, 7 votes]
68 WARPAINT Warpaint [262 points, 9 votes, 1 first place vote]
67 FUTURE Honest [262 points, 10 votes, 1 first place vote]
66 KHUN NARIN Khun Narin's Electric Phin Band [263 points, 10 votes]
65 THEO PARRISH American Intelligence [267 points, 10 votes]
64 THE NEW PORNOGRAPHERS Brill Bruisers [269 points, 10 votes, 2 first place votes]
63 LEON VYNEHALL Music for the Uninvited [271 points, 13 votes]
62 DEAN BLUNT Black Metal [272 points, 9 votes]
61 FREDDIE GIBBS & MADLIB Piñata [275 points, 9 votes]

60 TUNE-YARDS Nikki Nack [278 points, 11 votes]
59 KELIS Food [281 points, 13 votes]
58 KASSEM MOSSE Workshop 19 [282 points, 13 votes]
57 BOTANIST VI: Flora [285 points, 10 votes]
56 STEVE GUNN Way Out Weather [286 points, 9 votes, 1 first place vote]
55 RONIKA Selectadisc [288 points, 10 votes]
54 MOODYMANN Moodymann [291 points, 12 votes]
53 SUN KIL MOON Benji [292 points, 9 votes]
52 FENNESZ Bécs [306 points, 12 votes]
51 A WINGED VICTORY FOR THE SULLEN Atomos [309 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote]
50 ALVVAYS Alvvays [314 points, 10 votes, 1 first place vote]
49 GIGI MASIN Talk to the Sea [323 points, 9 votes, 2 first place votes]
48 WILD BEASTS Present Tense [326 points, 12 votes, 1 first place vote]
47 KATY B Little Red [342 points, 16 votes]
46 YOUNG MARCO Biology [355 points, 15 votes]
45 LEWIS L'Amour [367 points, 11 votes]
44 ONE DIRECTION Four [372 points, 12 votes, 1 first place vote]
43 DJ Q Ineffable [374 points, 17 votes]
42 LEE ANN WOMACK The Way I'm Livin' [380 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote]
41 EX HEX Rips [380 points, 15 votes]

40 LANA DEL REY Ultraviolence [390 points, 11 votes, 1 first place vote]
TIE-38 ANGEL OLSEN Burn Your Fire for No Witness [390 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote]
TIE-38 MARK BARROTT Sketches From an Island [390 points, 14 votes, 1 first place vote]
37 SPOON They Want My Soul [400 points, 11 votes]
36 AZEALIA BANKS Broke With Expensive Taste [408 points, 16 votes, 1 first place vote]
35 TONI BRAXTON & BABYFACE Love, Marriage & Divorce [414 points, 14 votes]
34 ANDY STOTT Faith in Strangers [424 points, 14 votes]
33 THE SOFT PINK TRUTH Why Do the Heathen Rage? [426 points, 16 votes]
32 ARIEL PINK Pom Pom [430 points, 15 votes, 1 first place vote]
31 JESSIE WARE Tough Love [431 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote]
30 FUTURE ISLANDS Singles [432 points, 15 votes]
29 POPCAAN Where We Come From [435 points, 14 votes, 2 first place votes]
28 DJ QUIK The Midnight Life [455 points, 18 votes]
27 GAZELLE TWIN Unflesh [469 points, 19 votes, 2 first place votes]
26 SWANS To Be Kind [481 points, 16 votes]
25 SCOTT WALKER & SUNN 0))) Soused [482 points, 18 votes, 1 first place vote]
24 K. MICHELLE Anybody Wanna Buy a Heart? [486 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote]
23 RICHARD DAWSON Nothing Important [497 points, 15 votes, 2 first place votes]
22 SHABAZZ PALACES Lese Majesty [536 points, 17 votes, 1 first place vote]
21 NENEH CHERRY Blank Project [545 points, 20 votes, 1 first place vote]

20 JAVIERA MENA Otra Era [574 points, 18 votes, 3 first place votes]
19 RICH GANG The Tour Part 1 [581 points, 18 votes, 3 first place votes]
18 MIRANDA LAMBERT Platinum [604 points, 16 votes, 1 first place vote]
17 AGAINST ME! Transgender Dysphoria Blues [607 points, 16 votes, 4 first place votes]
16 GROUPER Ruins [615 points, 21 votes]
15 CARIBOU Our Love [618 points, 22 votes, 2 first place votes]
14 MR TWIN SISTER Mr Twin Sister [620 points, 18 votes, 1 first place vote]
13 RUN THE JEWELS Run the Jewels 2 [673 points, 27 votes, 1 first place vote]
12 CHARLI XCX Sucker [688 points, 21 votes, 3 first place votes]
11 THE JUAN MACLEAN In a Dream [710 points, 25 votes, 1 first place vote]
10 TODD TERJE It's Album Time [812 points, 30 votes, 1 first place vote]
9 ST. VINCENT St. Vincent [822 points, 28 votes, 1 first place vote]
8 THE WAR ON DRUGS Lost in the Dream [925 points, 26 votes, 4 first place votes]
7 YG My Krazy Life [1,004 points, 32 votes, 2 first place votes]
6 APHEX TWIN Syro [1,035 points, 43 votes, 2 first place votes]
5 TINASHE Aquarius [1,101 points, 35 votes, 1 first place vote]
4 OWEN PALLETT In Conflict [1,297 points, 37 votes, 4 first place votes]
3 FKA TWIGS LP1 [1,509 points, 43 votes, 2 first place votes]
2 TAYLOR SWIFT 1989 [1,624 points, 40 votes, 8 first place votes]
1 D'ANGELO AND THE VANGUARD Black Messiah [2,105 points, 58 votes, 8 first place votes]

i wasn't suggesting that no one is at fault, rather that it's complicated. you have to look at who's reading & why as well as what's getting written about. and i didn't bring pitchfork into this, much less suggest that's the be/end all. i think i was tending more towards pitchfork as a symptom of the culture it serves.

― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Friday, January 30, 2015 1:33 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sure. I've not even been attacking anyone, just talking about interesting contradictions and double-standards and disparities at the discursive level.

All I really want is for critics to be more self-aware about their own limitations and biases (and obviously this applies as equally to critics who are too quick to dismiss indie records based on their own biases) and write in a way that reflects that. If you want to praise a record based on its generic competence, think about what that means for all the records you have dismissed on the same basis. And the reverse.

Or, basically, for critics to be more conscientious in applying Frank's Boney Joan Rule when thinking about what makes music worth (or not worth) celebrating.

damn i had 8 of my votes place between #88 and #115

http://i.imgur.com/k2669I6.png

looking forward to getting in to Ronika and Mr Twin Sister and all the ambient and outer-national stuff that was never on my radar

Or, basically, for critics to be more conscientious in applying Frank's Boney Joan Rule when thinking about what makes music worth (or not worth) celebrating.
― Tim F, Thursday, January 29, 2015 9:23 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Say what?

thanks sleeve!

it's craftsmaship when you want to like it and not innovative when you don't

As this applies to words that I said, this is kinda bullshit as I for the most part tend to veer away from touting 'craftsmanship', although since I put words in the mouth of the ppl who were frustrated at TWOD placing, I can't really get mad at you doing the same to me

There's a couple more things which I don't have time to say right now. One is how in the 80s when indie first came out of college rock and hardcore genres is that it stood in opposition for stuff like Building the Perfect Beast and now has come full circle. Say what you will about rap which has existed for abt the same time; it never quite transformed into 'not-rap'

couldn't be happier to see the sharon van etten album ignored here, might be the only record more overrated the war on drugs one elsewhere

*than the

Boney Joan Rule

let's start the 2015 nomination round now

Noms December 11, 2015 - January 3, 2016
Voting January 3, 2016 - January 15, 2016
Tracks results January 18, 2016 - January 21, 2016
Albums results January 25, 2016 - January 28, 2016

there's gonna be so much bitching about The Wrens

This conversation seems to have evaporated somehow, or skewed awfully far afield of its origins. I began by suggesting that the "super-functional" quality (to use fgti's description) of an album like Lost in the Dream might be of legitimate value, in much the sense that ambient or dance music are often praised in functional terms. This was an attempt to steer the conversation away from competence vs. genius, which didn't seem a promising avenue.

Tim responded with, "we don't ask for demonstrations of something beyond competence from indie because the assumption of that 'something more' is already built into our understanding of the genre as a whole." I was dubious about this argument relative to the sort of comfortably mainstream, classic rockin' indie represented by The War on Drugs. From there, the discussion mutated a while before eventually settling on shared & uncontroversial complaints about the undue influence/tiresome homogeneity of complacent indie criticism.

That's all good, but I'm not sure how the Boney Joan rule fits in. Kogan's article suggests that we should interrogate the justifications we use to defend our tastes, but also that we should own them. It's perfectly okay to prefer Boney M for the same reasons that one scorns Joan Baez. According to Kogan (and I agree), the real, deep down, ultimate explanation for our tastes will probably never be available to us anyway. By this logic, it's perfectly fine to happily vibe out to The War on Drugs while finding other sorts of vibe-dependent music kind of boring. Or vice-versa.

To return to a previous stage in the conversation, I honestly think that the Problem With Indie, as exemplified by all those #1 placings for Lost in the Dream, is the lie of "generalism". A publication that highlights a strong institutional/curatorial identity yet frames its editorial taste as existing independent of any explicit niche (like "Rap Music", "Seattle Music" or "Christian Music") is expressing an arrogance that should strike us as laughable. If a publication truly wished to cover the globe, it might gather a cadre of deeply knowledgeable specialist critics and give each full oversight over his/her own roost, but such a publication would then have no core editorial identity. It would simply be a loosely affiliated critics' collective, a riot of harshly disparate voices and tastes.

Pitchfork, our era's leading generalist music site, refuses to settle for that. It wishes to survey the panoply and present only the very Best New Music available to you, dear reader. The fact that it nevertheless remains staunchly indie-centric without ever admitting it is fucking bizarre. Rap and metal (and jazz and dance and classical and country and avant-garde and punk and world music) publications have no problem defining their respective beats. Their readerships have no problem professing allegiance to the specific cultures they cover. Such publications issue modestly restricted year-end lists that concentrate on their declared areas of specialty. I personally believe that indie's generalist arrogance - in no way limited to Pitchfork - is a product of the peculiar form of self-blindness familiar from conversations about "privilege". But, to close the circle, that doesn't impugn anyone's enthusiasm for The War on Drugs.

This conversation seems to have evaporated somehow

gee

hi, matt

Never heard of war on drugs until this poll

If you're starting this conversation by conflating 'competent' and 'functional' (and maybe 'sticks within the borders of its genre') in relation to the War on Drugs or indeed virtually anything then you're starting from a false premise regardless of the correctness of other parts of your argument.

I mean I'm not sure how many bands there are out there who over the years have mixed boomer rock tropes with droney shoegaze, not that many that I can think of, but because these are both separately very well worn tropes within indie rock now, they seem more generic than they might otherwise be considered.

The flipside is that this is exactly the sort of "the points of difference are only really visible close up" scenario that some critics would do well to consider more regularly when reviewing other genres.

That's all good, but I'm not sure how the Boney Joan rule fits in. Kogan's article suggests that we should interrogate the justifications we use to defend our tastes, but also that we should own them. It's perfectly okay to prefer Boney M for the same reasons that one scorns Joan Baez. According to Kogan (and I agree), the real, deep down, ultimate explanation for our tastes will probably never be available to us anyway. By this logic, it's perfectly fine to happily vibe out to The War on Drugs while finding other sorts of vibe-dependent music kind of boring. Or vice-versa.

I think the conversation has been tighter than you suggest. I raised the Boney Joan Rule because "owning" the contradictions in one's tastes necessitates dispensing with the pseudo-ethical justifications for our qualitative distinctions - if we recognise that we like competence in one area and dislike it in another out of pure inconsistency, then we have to concede that this distinction is entirely arbitrary. At that point, intellectual consistency demands acknowledgment that's no reason that it's "right" to be inconsistent in that manner.

My original point was to agree with you that tolerance of pure functionalism or competency in one area of music while complaining about it in another (or using it as a basis to justify disregarding whole swathes of music) is inconsistent, but I would like to see more music crit discourse own up to this inconsistency rather than pretend (whether consciously or just at the level of an unacknowledged starting premise) that in just one area pure functionalism is okay because of some inherent nobility of form.

I agree with you that the basic problem is... not indie-generalism itself, but the circumstances that give rise to it.

Agree with that analysis and it gets some way to identifying what my problem with them is. They're taking these two contrasting but both ultimately very stodgy comfort food ingredients and fusing them together into what basically amounts to the glazed bacon donut of indie rock.

That was a response to mdc btw

Thanks to JF and sean - really enjoyed the rollout, esp. Day 1

I hate Bruce Springsteen. I hate late 80's beer commercial rock. Dire Straits do nothing for me. I don't read Pitchfork. I love the War On Drugs album, and voted it third. My enjoyment of it has nothing to do with its presumed influences. For me, it inhabits its own singular musical space. PS, I am 52.

Guards, take him.

lol

One more casualty of the war on drugs

I also voted for Jack White and Manic Street Preachers. I'll leave my pass at the security desk.

Thanks for a great roll out JF! Enjoyed it and have quite a list of albums still to check out.

OK, I only have one question for each and every one of you.

Why did you not tell me about Mr. Twin Sister?

― The Reverend, Thursday, January 29, 2015 5:27 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Rev I'm pretty sure I played this for you when you were over haha