if we recognise that we like competence in one area and dislike it in another out of pure inconsistency, then we have to concede that this distinction is entirely arbitrary
True up to a point -- if all you say is, "Ugh, competent rock/trap/techno/country" or "Yay, competent rock/trap/techno/country." But it's possible and not rhetorically contradictory to find some competence charming or comforting, and some competence stultifying. So it's a matter of clarity and specificity, not being lazy in thinking or writing.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 30 January 2015 15:34 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, I agree that talking about TWOD in terms of "indie" values, for good or ill, is a red herring. The fact that it's placed so high in the ILX poll when records with equivalent RS/Q love (Beck, Sharon Van Etten, Sun Kil Moon, Jack White) proves that it's not representative on indie in 2014. That's why everyone tasked with defining its significance in EOTY write-ups has struggled. There's nothing to sign up to here. It's just an unassuming yet distinctive, very pleasurable (or not) vibe record that's thinkpiece-repellent. It's not just competent though. There are hundreds of merely competent rock records every year that get faint praise and disappear.
― Minaj moron (Re-Make/Re-Model), Friday, 30 January 2015 15:39 (nine years ago) link
Otm
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 15:41 (nine years ago) link
i think ppl should be using 'atmospheric' to describe that war on drugs records. doing a kinda scott seward disoriented grandpa thing here but i dont really have a sense of what ppl are talking about when the say 'indie' rn. i did really like the war on drugs records, listened to it a fair bit but i feel like it kinda falls into that matt p thread about 'inconsquential music' i was reading like its not really situated w/in the current aesthetic or social context for 2014 indie? its just sorta... its own thing but not in a tastemaking way. idk
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, 30 January 2015 15:53 (nine years ago) link
truth bomb from the tracks poll:
ILM is one of the few remaining safe spaces online where indie rock is rightfully hounded & mocked ceaselessly.
― ||||||||, Friday, January 23, 2015 6:05 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
tim explained this to contenderizer but everyone complaining about indie getting mocked for things that rap, country, metal, pop, dance don't is missing the point. they don't start on the same level. you've had half a century and ongoing of rock/indie's values being centred and dominant. pushing back against that is an integral part of this board's dna and you will simply DEAL when people continue that proud history.
― lex pretend, Friday, 30 January 2015 15:55 (nine years ago) link
its not really situated w/in the current aesthetic or social context for 2014 indie? its just sorta... its own thing but not in a tastemaking way. idk
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, January 30, 2015 10:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
theyll be on the bonaroo/jam circuit w/3 years, ive see it happen before, bet
― lag∞n, Friday, 30 January 2015 15:56 (nine years ago) link
indiesplaining
― Mordy, Friday, 30 January 2015 15:56 (nine years ago) link
lex thats nonsense
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, 30 January 2015 15:57 (nine years ago) link
― lag∞n, Friday, January 30, 2015 9:56 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah any band that comes close enough to that scene generally makes that move eventually and i don't blame them, way more loyal fanbase & big summer circuits to hit
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 15:58 (nine years ago) link
Pretty sure this board used to be a Belle & Sebastian fan forum.
― emil.y, Friday, 30 January 2015 15:58 (nine years ago) link
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, January 30, 2015 10:58 AM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah its way better, the fans actually love music too
― lag∞n, Friday, 30 January 2015 15:59 (nine years ago) link
Wonder if PJ Harvey will drop a new LP two weeks before Xmas so we can really test this.
― nashwan, Friday, 30 January 2015 15:59 (nine years ago) link
This board started out thinking Loveless and Kid A were the best albums ever iirc
― nashwan, Friday, 30 January 2015 16:00 (nine years ago) link
haha even the early board's official indie hate mascot ethan was a belle & sebastian fan
― some dude, Friday, 30 January 2015 16:00 (nine years ago) link
who isnt?
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:04 (nine years ago) link
that said a song like 'Seasons' winning the tracks poll would've felt like much more of a break from tradition
― nashwan, Friday, 30 January 2015 16:04 (nine years ago) link
I wouldn't equate "rock values" with "indie values" nor say that either set of values has remained consistent over a half-century
― example (crüt), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link
i'm american btw
TWOD is on the Bonnaroo roster for this year. I haven't been too into I've heard by them, but I might check them out there -- hazy guitar jams can be fun.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link
And yes, it's not hard to imagine them going over well with the My Morning Jacket fanbase, e.g.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:08 (nine years ago) link
xp If ILM's mission is to correct historical rockcrit injustices and oppose Pitchfork and all it stands for, then maybe there should be a sign on the door.
― Minaj moron (Re-Make/Re-Model), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:14 (nine years ago) link
lol @ lex's timsplaining
the discussion at this point has zero to do with whether or not it's okay to mock indie. of course it is, you big dummy. if fgti had come in yesterday with "lol, more landfill indie crap", then i'd have filed the post with strychnine's and quickly moved on. however, the fgti post that triggered all this was a good deal more subtle and interesting than that, so i treated it in kind. mockery is fine for what it is, but when your ability to deal with a genre is wholly defined by childish "my team rulez, your team droolz" bullshit, then you've become irrelevant to more nuanced discussions.
― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:14 (nine years ago) link
our job is to fight the indiearchy
― Mordy, Friday, 30 January 2015 16:15 (nine years ago) link
i do agree that yesterdays rock/today's indie are the voice, in a way, of a dominant culture. that's probably worth discussing, and it's where i'd left things at the end of my last (long) post. i didn't push it any further, cuz this is the point at which fucks cluster.
― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:19 (nine years ago) link
srsly you do not want to go down that roadway too much time has already been devoted to the war on drugs as it is
― groundless round (La Lechera), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:21 (nine years ago) link
the war on drugs will never end tbh
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:23 (nine years ago) link
Was secretly hoping that Aphex Twin's placing would cause a reevaluation of his catalog, a process called The War On Drukqs
― 龜, Friday, 30 January 2015 16:25 (nine years ago) link
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, January 30, 2015 11:04 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
me, lots of people here
― some dude, Friday, 30 January 2015 16:26 (nine years ago) link
― example (crüt), Friday, January 30, 2015 10:07 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no crut, you know ROCK VALUES...the ones shared by Motley Crue, Grateful Dead, The Clean, and Jesus Lizard
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:26 (nine years ago) link
I find Lex's genre-battle approach both exhilirating to read and completely alien to how I think about music.
Enjoyed all your posts contenderizer
― Minaj moron (Re-Make/Re-Model), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:29 (nine years ago) link
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, January 30, 2015 7:53 AM (25 minutes ago)
oh, do disoriented grandpa! i love that.
good post, kidding aside. agree that "atmospheric" is a good description of the vibe-based pleasures offered by lost in the dream. that's what i was getting at in describing it as functionally ambient: songwriting aside, it creates & maintains a distinct sonic environment, one that many find enjoyable for obvious reasons. i'm not eager to distance it from "indie", though. indie's a big tent, and the war on drugs don't seem so terribly out of place slotted alongside acts like kurt vile (obviously), the hold steady and even fleet foxes.
― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:37 (nine years ago) link
also, good call on the thread connection with matt's "inconsequential music". i'd wanted to rope that in yesterday, re: indie generalism's magpie mentality, but i could make it fit and had gone on forever already.
― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:40 (nine years ago) link
Contendo making cool and interesting posts. Lex otm as always
Just to be clear, my usage of the word "competent" was not meant to be demeaning in any way or suggest that somehow functional music is less-than uhhhh "art music" or what you will. I am a card-carrying AC Newman fan. "Generic indie" bands make up 90% of my client base. But yeah, sound of the monoculture. When the comfort of a steak and a bougie ragout is available to me then I can enjoy this music recreationally. The only time I work up a sweat about "too music indie rock" is when I see festival line-ups and there are no girls or queers
― sonny and sber (fgti), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:51 (nine years ago) link
"Generic indie" bands make up 90% of my client base
indie rock well much clientele anything u needhe probably sell
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:52 (nine years ago) link
also the way these "serious debates" play out is a good reminder that i'm still basically lobbing jokes from the ILX kid's table
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:57 (nine years ago) link
Would like to say that the AWVFTS record was a major code-crack for me. I feel like a lot of people on Erased Tapes have been on the comfortable side of the field, closer to the "not-as-good-as-actual-chamber-music" of fifteen-years-ago post-rock than something that is new and profound. But yeah they cracked the code, ATOMOS is an enormous watershed moment to my ears. All the discipline of Feldman but with a lovely elegance. Really melted my heart and I've spent my whole life smiling politely at that style of disguised easy listening music whither it's Sigur Ros or Tim Hecker
― sonny and sber (fgti), Friday, 30 January 2015 16:59 (nine years ago) link
Ive been wanting ti check out Winged Victory since 2011. Maybe it's time I finally did so
― the war on me (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 30 January 2015 17:50 (nine years ago) link
ILM indie mockery is fine but it teeters on close-mindedness and hi-fiving each other's narrow tastes a lot of the time
― Darin, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:23 (nine years ago) link
does it, though
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Friday, 30 January 2015 18:25 (nine years ago) link
yep
― Darin, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:26 (nine years ago) link
*hi-5*
― 龜, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:28 (nine years ago) link
there's a lot of indie love on this forum, it just tends to not manifest on the poll rollout threads as strongly as pop / dance / r&b etc love. probably because 'indie' is so fractured and ill-defined that it doesn't really have the same type of rallying points
― ciderpress, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:35 (nine years ago) link
imo its because indies know they are shameful
― lag∞n, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:36 (nine years ago) link
i certainly do
― ciderpress, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:37 (nine years ago) link
lol no its because indies are ruthless appropriators of everything else
― wizaerd (Lamp), Friday, 30 January 2015 18:37 (nine years ago) link
feel like were finally getting somewhere
― lag∞n, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:38 (nine years ago) link
http://bygonebureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/vote.jpg
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 30 January 2015 18:40 (nine years ago) link
enough shame to know they need to appropriate everything else, not enough shame to refrain from it
― lex pretend, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:41 (nine years ago) link
I don't recognise P4k indie as worth giving a shit about, the rampant conservatism is anathema to anything definable as worthy in the sense if beind independent. Soundtracking a Harvester meal seems about right. Would not identify as indie, UK DIY definitely bcs a lot to be proud of. Indie rock is growing old and mostly very boring.
― ineloquentwow (Craigo Boingo), Friday, 30 January 2015 18:41 (nine years ago) link
The bad records are bad because they make a horrible sound, not because of where they are in the supermarket
― saer, Friday, 30 January 2015 18:42 (nine years ago) link