Cardiacs: Classic or Dud?

http://www.salisburyartscentre.co.uk/whats-on/Event.aspx?EventID=1343

guns vinyl reissue out. seems to part of a ongoing plan to reissue all of their albums.

https://prog.teamrock.com/features/2015-07-18/the-10-best-cardiacs-songs-as-chosen-by-mike-vennart

decent choices, really like that there's two off The Obvious Identity!

Just catching on to Cardiacs, what a singular band. Consistently very entertaining as well, but can imagine finding them grating in the wrong mood.

give it a few months, there'll be moods where anything that isn't them is grating

I've listened to A Little Man and a House... Sing to God next?

you've listened to their weakest album (obviously it's still great)

uhhhh I'd recommend proceeding chronologically from there, On Land And In The Sea then Heaven Born And Ever Bright, toughen yourself up THEN unleash the God

Or fuck it, listen to Sing To God, it's what I did first and it ensured that I'd love them forever almost immediately

Sing To God was my first, then On Land And In The Sea, and right now A Little Man And A House And The Whole World Window.

I love Sing to God, but I confess that I frequently find Tim Smith obnoxious in a way to Frank Zappa. Not that he seems sarcastic, but he always seems particularly in your face and obnoxious about it. Listening to Cardiacs sometimes strikes me as being very similar to having a conversation with Lyndon Johnson when he wants something from you, the way he would tower over other people and grab them by the lapels, the way he would pee with the door open and talk loudly about "Jumbo". Lyndon Johnson was a great man but he wasn't very likable.

I don't know about that. Smith's music is incredibly full-on but strikes me (and pretty much every other paid-up member of the Cardiacs foaming-at-the-mouth evangelist club maybe) as being very genuine - the music *has* to be that way as it's Tim Smith's pure musical expression, and not aggressively weird or obnoxious. Imago posted a better way of putting all that in Cardiacsy prog-pop etc thread. Zappa was smug and condescending in a way Time Smith's never been and as much as I recognise his talent I don't like him or his music, but that's by the by.

I suppose I just love how overwhelming and busy Cardiacs were but I realise not everyone enjoys that. It's not as if they didn't have their more mellow or dynamic songs though - have you heard anything from the Guns album Rushomancy?

I don't get that vibe from him either.

Just realised that I never posted James' answer to the question of Bill's classical influences from upthread...

"asked Bill about composers and so on, there was no one particular that he could identify as an influence on the Nymphs stuff - he said Tim's stuff was obviously an influence through the years with Cardiacs, but several of his songs on the Mr & Mrs album were written before he joined the band, so they came from somewhere else...

As I thought he listened to (and played) a lot of classical repertoire at school - their music lessons sounded quite civilised, they used to sit round discussing records in the teacher's study with a dry sherry.

He's always been a big Bach fan. Liszt, Poulenc and Debussy were mentioned.

He did say that a lot of people he knew were heavily into the English composers like Britten when he was growing up, but that he never really "got on board" with that movement
and he hadn't heard Satie until much later.

So there you go!"

but i never bought the line that zappa's music was inauthentic. the problem with the "illinois enema bandit", to name the most heinous of zappa's musical sins, isn't that it's pandering. it's that it's not. "authenticity" isn't the question, it's more about whether you present yourself in an overbearing manner. some people (and i include myself in this category) are simply naturally overbearing.

Always surprised me that Zappa said he didn't really want to sing or have lyrics, that he did it to please fans.

Really enjoyed A Little Man And A House And The Whole World Window. "Is This The Life" reminds me of Pixies - Bossanova, which is a great thing.

Just catching on to Cardiacs, what a singular band. Consistently very entertaining as well, but can imagine finding them grating in the wrong mood.

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Sunday, July 19, 2015 10:54 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

give it a few months, there'll be moods where anything that isn't them is grating

― gawker's psychotic monkeys (imago)

Yeah this hasn't happened yet, I think I might be one of the rare people who is a little bit on the fence over Cardiacs. I can certainly appreciate their ability and imagination, but can also see why people are massively put off by their shrill relentlessness. FOr every jaw-dropping musical passage there's another section where I want them all to seriously chill out and stop yelling.

Reading some of their contemporary reviews is quite odd and funny, a lot of afaict baseless accusations leveled at them. Definitely some kind of strange music press vendetta against them at the time.

https://soundcloud.com/mary-abc/cardiacs-dinner-time

idgi- is this different from the version on The Seaside?

Nah, but it was left off the CD reissue as you know so someone stuck it up for anyone who didn't get a recording of the full cassette version and missed it, I guess.

ah. I didn't really realise the CD has less tracks. I have the (reissued) cassette which I used to play a lot but now don't think about that album very much.

Sound quality is good though! Better than the cassette.

someone stuck it up for anyone who didn't get a recording of the full cassette version and missed it, I guess

That someone being the same person(s) responsible for the official online shop, apparently.

Nurses next, please?

It's been put up because they're reissuing a brand new master of The Seaside with the missing tracks reinstated. CD, vinyl and some kind of box set thing with replica YOUsletters and such-like.

The fact that this is the first Cardiacs stuff to ever be properly remastered is quite a big deal, really. I hope this leads to them eventually redoing all the horrible CD mastering that plagued the 90s reissues.

a well-mixed version of Heaven Born & Ever Bright would be amazing

Even though the Soundcloud version sounded good, there was still dropouts and image shifts, wonder if they're going to sort that out

Isn't HBAEB the only CD that was redone when Alphabet reissued it in '95? It's certainly a brash mix but the original CD isn't overly loud at all.

I guessed something was happening with The Seaside, it's been out of the shop for a while. Sounds good, from a cassette source I guess.

neither version sound very good to me - lots and lots of midrange/treble

cut from the original 1984 1/4″ master reel

http://www.caughtinthecrossfire.com/music/a-visit-to-the-seaside-again-with-cardiacs/

lots and lots of midrange/treble

so Cardiacs then

I love this about their records, especially from the 90s onward. It's like they were specifically going for a hyper compressed sound, as if someone had discovered the world's most intense band but only had a small transistor radio to convey them to the rest of the world. It also reminds of me of the rehearsal videos they uploaded years back, shot through fish-eye lenses, showing the band in very cramped, uncomfortable quarters. Something about that says a lot about Cardiacs to me.

of course - the implication is of another, deeper layer half-hidden amidst the fury - by packing everything so densely they make it feel like there must be even more to it all - it has the sonic quality of great literature and is consequently of endless replay value

so excited for the Seaside reissue - it's an incredible record, imo better than the 'debut proper' and now no doubt to collect its rightful dues

anyone else coming to see WD Drake tomorrow?

HBAEB is a fucking astonishing record imo fwiw and the overcompression is not only not a problem for me but it gives the album an amazing coiled feeling that excites me like little else. a remaster could be cool tho

oh MAN the original the seaside being reissued? might be my favourite of theirs sometimes. it's certainly their poppiest and every track is a classic pretty much, almost feels like a greatest hits.

just spent 10 minutes trying to find more about it and keep getting facebook links that i can't see through without an account. anyone can do a copy and paste of what the alphabet people are saying about it?

Isn't HBAEB the only CD that was redone when Alphabet reissued it in '95? It's certainly a brash mix but the original CD isn't overly loud at all.

All the earlier albums were remastered (read: made about 6 dB louder) for the 95 reissues.

So am I the only who hates the hypercompression of StG and Guns with a passion?

I'm not keen on the midrange bias on Tim's mixes from HB&EB onwards. but I guess it's how he heard the band, Sea Nymphs and his solo record certainly aren't as pushed.

I'd like to hear a more evenly mixed version of HB&EB, it has my two favourite tracks on it, March and Helen & Heaven, t'aint gonna happen though.

All the earlier albums were remastered (read: made about 6 dB louder) for the 95 reissues.

So am I the only who hates the hypercompression of StG and Guns with a passion?

― chihuahuau, Saturday, 17 October 2015 00:00 (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't mind over-compression when it's used for effect, but the clipping on certain tracks really bugs me. It's not something I used to notice, but now I can't not hear it. There's really noticeable distortion on the louder parts of STG that makes me question Tim's judgement(or at least his hearing).

get stevey wilson on the case, make it all smooth and biteless ;)

Someone involved with the vinyl issues of STG and Guns said that's pretty much how the mixdown sounds, there's little if any additional compression on the masters. They were recorded on analogue 2" apparently, so it won't be digital clipping unless something went wrong somewhere.

That's not clipping, it's the sound of your brain shorting out

get stevey wilson on the case, make it all smooth and biteless ;)

which remasters are you referring to here? all the ones I've gotten sound great

I hadn't noticed clipping on StG or Guns - kind of afraid to relisten now. what I'm referring to on HB&EB is the noisier bits where the bass becomes inaudible and the quick double-bass drumming sounds like someone flicking you in the ear

Someone involved with the vinyl issues of STG and Guns said that's pretty much how the mixdown sounds, there's little if any additional compression on the masters. They were recorded on analogue 2" apparently, so it won't be digital clipping unless something went wrong somewhere.

― Noel Emits, Saturday, October 17, 2015 11:14 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IOW, the source tapes are already compressed and a better sounding version of those two is impossible? Is there a link for that?

I reckoned the hypercompression was deliberate but done at the mastering stage (like the 1995 reissues which were all louder than the originals, though not excessively so). At least this means there's hope for this Seaside edition to sound like the original CD.

Seaside reissue available, there's a vinyl special edition with lot's of ephemera but no extra music (unless you count the 4 missing tracks from the orig CD)

http://abc-mary.myshopify.com/products/the-seaside-original-edition-double-lp-pre-order

XP - STG & Guns may have been recorded on analog 2" but there's plenty of potential for digital clipping if they were mastered onto DAT instead of analog tape, plus all sorts of horrible mastering devices were used in the mid/late nineties to get the max impact out of every squeak of level on a recording, at one point it seemed like everybody (ab)used this piece of shit box:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/finalizer-96k/

there's plenty of potential for digital clipping if they were mastered onto DAT

Yeah, for sure. Maybe the convertors were driven hard on a DAT, but I don't hear actual digital clipping, not over the mix anyway. Tbh my first impression of Sing To God was that it had to have been put together on ProTools or something. There are some excessive frequencies but I wonder if one of those super nice mastering EQs couldn't go some way to taming that; not to mess with how it was intended but just so it could be played louder! Maybe if it was even better it just wouldn't be fair to other music.

Seaside reissue available,

Good lord, look at that box-set. I'll be fine with CD but it's 'citing.

What's this about there being different versions of some songs on the '95 Seaside? I had the 1990 CD.

got mine

now I need a vinyl player

'vinyl player'

o hey you into Cardiacs now then

$60 shipped to the U.S. (2LP), don't suppose they'll have a distributor for this to bring the price down a bit? Beyond my budget (as is most of their catalog).