King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

crimson to that point had been so poncy in their lyrics that easy money sticks out as kind of refreshing to me

also like the 'zipper' sounds in it

Stone headed Frisco spacer
Ate all the meat I gave her....

So poncy.

i forgot about that song
(for some reason)

the toronto show download is wonderful, everyone should check it out. loved the show last year, good reflection of it, really ties all the different eras together, though sadly ignores the 80's (no belew, no good or respectful way to represent those I imagine)

Heard "Elephant Talk" on the radio today as the lead-in to a piece on the GOP debate.

also, didn't realize they'd played a 'new' song (meltdown) last fall

wish they'd just do a studio record

I'm guessing they're going to do one after the live record in the fall.

Listening to the '74 Central Park show. Starless is fucking killer, Wetton's bass sound is absolutely monstrous. Might be the best version of the tune I've ever heard.

Yeah I think somewhere upthread I was in apoplexy over that particular performance. It's one of those 'holy shit, people stood there and saw this' things.

That Penn State '74 show is awesome, too. Maybe disc 17 of the Road to Red set?

Rieflin taking a sabbatical, will be replaced by Jeremy Stacy on fall 2016 dates.
http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=5474

So ... session guy.

That's cool, Pat was a session guy, too.

Yeah, when King Crimson needs a new member, grab the guy who worked with Sheryl Crow for 10 years.

Or, you know, REM.

Or Mr. Mister.

Fripp should spice it up and hire Yoshimi, she's used to playing with other drummers

Session guy from Bournemouth who has played with a lot of prog dudes and good live pop bands, but hey, y'all keep pre-judging!

ugh they got the guy from MOGUL THRASH to play bass for them? lame.

Yeah, and the one guitarist worked with the dude from Hall & Oates. Puke.

For the longest time, I've had a hard time with Thrak-era KC and related proje(k)cts often because of the processing – everything kind of blares and seeps together into a big mush.

But surprisingly, as I've noted on a few other threads, I've found myself really taken of late with Fripp's Soundcapes releases – in part because of the processing which, perhaps unsurprisingly, is a direct descendant of Eno's latter day treatments. There are tons of really great concerts on DGM Live to this effect – I dropped $30 or so on his World Financial Centre concert in 2000 and the"Churchscapes" tour of English cathedrals in 2006. They're really, really good – and demonstrate far more subtlety in the sound design process than I ever gave Fripp credit for, at least once he'd gone digital.

It's making me want to give this latter day-era Crimson a second chance, from the Projekcts to, particularly, the Thrak box, as Jakko specifically talks about how on the latter his remix work focused on de-stereo-fying everyone's parts to give them more separation and clarity in the surround and two-channel mixes.

Has anyone heard the box? And where would a good place to start with the Projekcts be if I were to dip a wary toe in?

I haven't heard the Thrak box, but I do know the initial Vroom EP released in advance of the album, the debut of the double trio, had a much more defined soundscape, with the speakers divided 3 and 3.

The Projekcts that I've heard are hit or miss, readily identifiable as the sum total of their contributors but pretty shy of KC proper, iirc. On one of them (that I also saw performed live), Belew plays V-drums exclusively, and Fripp is processing his guitar into sort of half-assed xylophone. Others are more aggressive, but I honestly can't remember the various sounds and combinations of the different line-ups.

This fall European tour has really ballooned into a big thing -- 41 dates now.

Clearly Fripp got the memo that 1) no one lives forever and 2) touring makes money.

the Thrak remix from last year is excellent. I don't know if it's a huge improvement over the original album (I'm a big fan of the original album) but it's different enough in almost every way on every song to make it worth listening to and definitely gives the album a fresh feeling.

I just watched this Live in Japan video from 2003: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYE7XCVAiBQ&feature=youtu.be

Despite the fact that I'm not that familiar with much material from this era, I thought the show was mostly amazing. Fripp's Soundscapes are the connective tissue throughout – and contrary to what I remembered about this band, they actually all have a pretty great hold on technology. There's a nice piece with them all playing sampled percussion at one point. Belew does a few neat little vocoder bits. And Fripp plays a tearing digital piano solo but in the encore that sounds like an alien Keith Tippett (or Jarrett even) has descended from 1970. Yes, Belew continues to be a so-so frontman but his guitar work throughout is on another level (5).

Interestingly given that Crimson seemed so painfully self-referential around this time, they only play a single track that dates from earlier than The ConstruKction of Light –
and that's from Thrak.

The Projekcts that I've heard are hit or miss, readily identifiable as the sum total of their contributors but pretty shy of KC proper, iirc. On one of them (that I also saw performed live), Belew plays V-drums exclusively, and Fripp is processing his guitar into sort of half-assed xylophone. Others are more aggressive, but I honestly can't remember the various sounds and combinations of the different line-ups.

Would you get the ProjeKcts box or Heavy ConstruKction if pressed?

i listen to heavy construkction more than anything on the projekcts box. the improvs are better and more fully-formed, and the written material renders the studio release of that material redundant.

I'm not a fan of Gunn's playing, tbh. Though I do like his playing on the Sylvian/Fripp record, but he sticks to Stick on that. Maybe I just don't like the Warr Guitar he uses?

There's no real sonic difference between the instruments. He's kind of a stiff.

I find that when he plays the Warr he plays it more like a guitar, fuzzed out. And it's got more strings, woo!

i listen to heavy construkction more than anything on the projekcts box. the improvs are better and more fully-formed, and the written material renders the studio release of that material redundant.

this is definitely my go-to for that era of Crimson - so much better than the studio album. and yeah those improvs rule, they're about as good as the '73 ones in my book.

Yeah, it was definitely a selling point on the Warr that pick-ups were more amenable to overdrive. But Gunn would be boring on the bagpipes.

How about processing his Warr Guitar to sound like bagpipes?

But yeah, he's a snooze. Tony is the best.

this is definitely my go-to for that era of Crimson - so much better than the studio album. and yeah those improvs rule, they're about as good as the '73 ones in my book.

― frogbs

honestly i think "beautiful rainbow" could probably take "trio" in a one-on-one fight

Ok, mega-answer forthcoming...

the improvs are better and more fully-formed

I've really liked the improvs I've heard from HC – München (which I heard on the Sometimes God Dies comp) is really terrific. One of the things I like most about them is Pat's approach to electronic percussion – which I find more subtle and detailed than Bruford's (who I like but always thought his Simmons kit sounded pretty stiff).

That said, I don't think the ProjeKcts stuff I've heard thus far is comparatively second rate. I actually found the Space Groove ProjeKct Two disc on Amazon for $2 so kinda had to grab it. What I've heard probably sounds the least like King Crimson proper of any of the ProjeKcts but they def. were doing their "research" into new sounds and electronic percussion on this one. Plus, this version of "Heavy ConstruKction" by that band live is pretty smoking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E58rmDHr8w&feature=share

the written material renders the studio release of that material redundant.

You know, the same is often said about the Absent Lovers boot which is a great show but not, at least for me, a replacement for the studio versions of the 80s albums which are really well produced (the first two by Rhett Davies of Avalon fame).

this is definitely my go-to for that era of Crimson - so much better than the studio album.

and yeah those improvs rule, they're about as good as the '73 ones in my book.

Perhaps I'm less particular about my Crimson improvs. But I sort of enjoy when this band and their various members and iterations are searching, or even stumbling, around on stage – it's one of the things that's defined their improvisational style since "Moonchild." Not everything soars above the clouds. Sometimes it doesn't really catch fire. But it's rarely by the numbers. And the different lineups of the ProjeKcts, including putting Belew behind the drums (and hence, keeping him away from the microphone), keeps things pretty fresh.

honestly i think "beautiful rainbow" could probably take "trio" in a one-on-one fight

Anyway, appreciate the FB. I still kinda want both!

I just heard the Toronto set, big thumbs up to that one

Reading some reviews it seems like people are disappointed they aren't doing anything new ("Meltdown" is a new song though, right? Or is it from someone's other project?) - understandable I guess, though any disappointment is tempered by the fact that A) most of this material hasn't been performed in four decades and B) these guys can fucking play, especially Mel Collins who somehow seems BETTER now than he was in '71, figure that out. Still not convinced by some aspects (why do you need three drummers? and was Jakko really the best singer available?) but (IMO) Crimso just sounds right with flutes, 'trons, and the sax - this to me feels like the "final form" of the band in some ways. Anyway, if you don't have it, grab it, you won't be disappointed.

Sorry for pretty much repeating my post above, but I gave Islands a listen this morning and was surprised to find that it's actually dead good and not half as bad as general consensus makes out.

Screw that, Islands is awesome. My wife commented on a car trip one time how gorgeous the title track was – when a woman says that about a King Crimson track, you just drop the mic and walk away.

Islands-era band doesn't get enough love imo, if you haven't heard any live boots from that time you absolutely must, their take on "Schizoid Man" is just...nasty! Probably my favorite take on that song come to think of it

I've got a copy of Earthbound I haven't listened to with Schizoid on it?

Earthbound is the only album that hasn't been reissued as part of the 40th Anniversary series. I have everything from Court through USA in that series - the CD/DVD sets in slipcase digipaks - and don't really want to buy the 30th Anniversary Edition of Earthbound, from 2006, because it won't match. Plus, I've heard it's pretty terrible, since the original recordings were made on cassette?

Yeah Earthbound doesn't sound so hot (iirc Fripp was not happy at all about that release) but Live at the Marquee, released sometime later as part of Fripp's Collectors Club thing sounds pretty dang good

Live at the Marquee (1971) I should say, apparently they played the Marquee several times, and why not? Might as well.

the collector's club releases of that band live are much better, don't bother with earthbound unless you're trying to be a completist, it sounds terrible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob6MXXTMaoc

Also the only line-up to tackle "Cirkus" live, though I guess the latest band played it not long ago? Haven't heard it but I'll take Boz over Jakko all day

some of you guys probably know this -- also it may have been reprinted elsewhere -- but fripp had a monthly column in the wire in the mid-80s

also: still LOLing at sinfield's description of greg lake, probably my least-favourite singer in rock (even including belew)

Okay, here's a stretch of a question: did any of you out there catch VH-1's "100 Greatest Artists of Hard Rock"? Whell, amidst those 100, they featured a quick segment on Crimson, and showed some live footage of the band, although I'm not sure from which era. The line-up featured Wetton on vocals, doing almost a scat-styled lyric. It was very free- form sounding, but still quite cool. Being that their catalogue is a bit on the vast side (and I'm only really familiar with COURT OF...and the DISCIPLINE and beyond periods), can anyone tell me where that particular track can be found?
― Alex in NYC, Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:00 PM (fourteen years ago)

hope Alex hasn't been waiting anxiously for fourteen years, that particular track is "Easy Money"

this quick segment on VH1 was actually my first exposure to KC, I was 16 years old at the time, and immediately went out afterwards to the record shop to pick up a copy of Sleepless: The Consise King Crimson. which is indeed consise and a little bit (though understandably) heavy on 80s material, but a pretty good introduction anyway. thanks Carmen Electra! and VH1! music first!

yeah, I figured it out fairly soon after. Cheers, though.