They didn't like the production on the 1st album, and basically just didn't like the album in general, I think that's what it was really about.
― Thomas of Britain (Tom D.), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 13:40 (eight years ago) link
They had that weird anti-cymbals thing going on which was briefly popular and seemingly applied that to the remix version
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 13:41 (eight years ago) link
I think the success of the Sulk singles made someone think it was a good idea to turn AP into a synthpop "new pop" album instead of a "post-punk" album.― dan selzer,
Yeah, this is about right. Billy and Alan disowned it pretty quickly. It's sad to think it was the only version available on CD until the CD reissue in 2004.
― Kitchen Person, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 14:32 (eight years ago) link
I have a real soft spot for 'Perhaps'..."Breakfast" is just a lovely thing...
― X-Prince Protégé (sonnyboy)
Breakfast is so gorgeous with one of my favourite Billy vocals ever. Perhaps is a step down from Sulk but still a really great album. The second in particular is very strong. Always loved The Best Of You. It's a shame Helicopter Helicopter spoils that first half.
― Kitchen Person, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 14:35 (eight years ago) link
Perhaps is my favourite Associates album. I find it quite weird it is considered to be a flawed effort
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 16:06 (eight years ago) link
Perhaps benefits greatly from having Martin Rushent behind the desk.
Watching that performance of "You Only Live Twice" upthread, and being a fan of "The Rhythm Divine," I am thinking how amazing a record of Billy singing Bond songs would've been. I mean, man.
― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 16:11 (eight years ago) link
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP!
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 19:12 (eight years ago) link
I have to say that song has been driving me NUTS. My car's connection to my iPhone can be buggy. Firstly, whenever I plug the phone in, it immediately starts playing the first song on my phone, which used to be some unlistenable Aphex Twin thing, but is now "A" by the Associates. Then the bugginess causes it to start, play the first verse, then start again, over and over again. It drives us crazy.
I liked the song before that though.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 19:27 (eight years ago) link
I love 'A', it demonstrates that Billy can sing something as mundane as the alphabet in that golden voice of his and have it come out amazingly, but even my patience would be tested by having to listen to it like that!
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 19:58 (eight years ago) link
― Naive Teen Idol,
Always thought Give Me Time from Beyond The Sun was his best attempt at a Bond theme.
― Kitchen Person, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:14 (eight years ago) link
Listening to The Affectionate Punch last night I fell in love all over again with the way the guitar just comes bursting in on 'Paper House', such a great bit of playing.
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:24 (eight years ago) link
I've just put it on. Paper House could well be my favourite song on here. Always loved how pretty the guitars are on Logan Time too.
One of my favourite memories of this album is from Jonathan Ross' radio show back in 2006. He had Yeah Yeah Yeahs in to promote Show Your Bones. He somehow got on to the topic of Billy Mackenzie/Associates when interviewing them and couldn't believe they'd never heard of them. He sounded really excited to play an Associates track for them. He then went and played Transport To Central. It was such an awesome and bizarre moment hearing such a bleak song like that on Radio 2 on a Saturday morning. I don't remember Yeah Yeah Yeahs reactions now, I don't think they were that excited by it. Probably the coolest thing I've ever heard Jonathan Ross do.
― Kitchen Person, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:44 (eight years ago) link
i don't know if anyone but billy could sing the phrase "i don't know whether to over or underestimate you", let alone make it catchy. seems like an insanely hard thing to sing.. to fit all the syllables in and still have it be soulful, let alone intelligible.
― lute bro (brimstead), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:49 (eight years ago) link
Hahaha, I didn't know about that! I love those jagged guitar chords in 'Transport To Central'... there's some great guitar work throughout the whole album, actually. I've got 'Deeply Concerned' lodged in my head now, think it may be time for yet another listen. I'm glad that we're not talking about Sulk for once, even though I love that record!
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:56 (eight years ago) link
(x-post to KP)
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:57 (eight years ago) link
Oh god, yeah, that chorus from 'A Matter of Gender' is such an earworm!
― // 166,000 W A N K E R S // LOVE (Turrican), Tuesday, 8 March 2016 20:59 (eight years ago) link
Always been a really big fan of of the B-side, You Were Young. It's as good as anything on The Affectionate Punch.
Agree about A Matter of Gender. Another AP highlight. There isn't a weak song on there really.
― Kitchen Person, Tuesday, 8 March 2016 21:13 (eight years ago) link
Hello.
In May 1982 the French TV presenter Alain Maneval came to London to film The Associates for his show Megahertz. The band performed ‘Party Fears Two’ and ‘Club Country’ at the Kensington Roof Gardens, London. The show was broadcast and the tapes disappeared into a French film archive. They are now available for the first time in 34 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww2AYxrPqkk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i38fCDsrKIg
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 May 2016 19:13 (eight years ago) link
Nice!
― Turrican, Monday, 23 May 2016 19:34 (eight years ago) link
<3 Billy
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Monday, 23 May 2016 20:08 (eight years ago) link
Just wonderful. I could spend ages watching Billy performances like that. What a man!
― Kitchen Person, Monday, 23 May 2016 20:17 (eight years ago) link
20 years since Billy died today. Definitely going to be playing some of his/their stuff loud today.
― Kitchen Person, Sunday, 22 January 2017 18:44 (seven years ago) link
Me too. Not that I need any excuse to listen to this band!
― Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Sunday, 22 January 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
Will line 'Sulk' up next. Twenty years!
― michaellambert, Sunday, 22 January 2017 22:13 (seven years ago) link
I'm on a bit of Nude Spoons right now.
― Kitchen Person, Sunday, 22 January 2017 22:16 (seven years ago) link
The closing massed choir vocal on "Party Fears Two" is one of the most spine tingling moments in music ever
― Unchanging Window (Ross), Monday, 5 June 2017 00:49 (seven years ago) link
Indeed. The song is already incredible but that last minute takes it up to another level. My favourite song of all time.
Speaking of spine tingling moments, I got a nice surprise when I went into one of my local record shops on Friday and found they'd reissued Beyond The Sun on vinyl. I had no idea it was coming out again. I was so happy to see his handsome face on the new releases stand. It was only $14 too which is an absolute bargain. I played it yesterday and it still sounded so great. The last minute of Nocturne VII rivals that last part of Party Fears Two for the most moving end to a song ever.
― kitchen person, Monday, 5 June 2017 02:35 (seven years ago) link
Incredible song kitchen person, never heard it. He's truly a singular talent
― Unchanging Window (Ross), Monday, 5 June 2017 06:15 (seven years ago) link
4th Drawer Down is all good though innit? Or is that an alternative version or rerecording.
― Stevolende, Monday, 5 June 2017 13:10 (seven years ago) link
'Arrogance Gave Him Up' into 'No' is such a bizarre track ordering decision if you think about it, opening the album with this peppy instrumental and then directly into possibly the darkest song on the LP, but it really works. Everything on Sulk sounds so well recorded and sparkly while the playing - particularly the drumming - is often idiosyncratic, with those always unique vocals taking it over the top. It's a great musical brew. Great band. The drums on 'Bap De La Bap' remains one of those "how the hell did they think of that?" moments.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Monday, 5 June 2017 17:38 (seven years ago) link
Per the Doyle bio of Billy, "Arrogance" acts as a curtain raiser for the album -- you're getting a full show, compere and all.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 5 June 2017 17:40 (seven years ago) link
Does anyone on this site dislike this band
― K-hole MacLachlan (wins), Monday, 5 June 2017 17:41 (seven years ago) link
― Unchanging Window (Ross)
Glad you enjoyed it. Beyond The Sun is a gorgeous record.
― kitchen person, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 01:30 (seven years ago) link
xxp yeah "arrogance" and the "Nothinginsomethingparticular" are the intro/exit themes
i can't imagine where else i'd put "no", might kill the momentum to have it in the midst of the other tracks that are so much faster
― brimstead, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 02:44 (seven years ago) link
"If you weren't into Led Zeppelin and... what's that other horrible band? Genesis!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAqYmTH6REE
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 08:43 (seven years ago) link
Billy's voice on 'No' is just pure ear candy.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 08:46 (seven years ago) link
21 years ago today.
Don't think I'd mentioned it here before -- could be wrong -- but I'll be presenting on Billy at the Pop Con this year. Here's a quick description:
http://nedraggett.tumblr.com/post/168682900002/so-my-proposal-for-the-2018-pop-conference-has
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 22 January 2018 18:28 (six years ago) link
The clip above set me off on a minor YouTube crawl and a documentary in which his dad suggests he should have been a vet not a pop-star. I have to confess to having had a chuckle.
― djh, Monday, 22 January 2018 22:37 (six years ago) link
That must be _The Glamour Chase_ doc -- essential viewing, still.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 22 January 2018 22:44 (six years ago) link
Yup.
― djh, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:14 (six years ago) link
So here's my presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oR4vXvcSUQ
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
Really looking forward to this.
― Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 4 May 2018 17:43 (six years ago) link
So there's a reissue of Perhaps due late January on Cherry Red -- an expansion of what ended up as that somewhat barebones two-fer CD release with The Glamour Chase, but this time strictly Perhaps-era material itself. Nothing unreleased, but pretty much every last variant and B-side and the like finally in one place:
--
Disc One: Perhaps + Bonus Tracks1. Those First Impressions2. Waiting For The Loveboat3. Perhaps (Dave Allen Remix)4. Schampout5. Helicopter Helicopter6. Breakfast7. Thirteen Feelings8. The Stranger In Your Voice9. The Best Of You(Billy Mackenzie & Dave Allan Remix)10. Don’t Give Me That I Told You So Look11. Perhaps (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *12. Breakfast Alone (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *13. Thirteen Feelings (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *14. The Stranger In Your Voice (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *
Disc Two: Bonus Tracks1. Those First Impressions (Extended Version) *2. Waiting For The Loveboat (Single Version)3. Waiting For The Loveboat (Extended Version) *4. Waiting For The Loveboat (Slight Return)5. Perhaps Perhaps *6. Schampout (Edit) *7. Breakfast (Single Version)8. Breakfast (Edit)9. Kites10. Take Me To The Girl (Single Version)11. Take Me To The Girl (12” Mix) *12. Take Me To The Girl (Instrumental) *13. The Girl That Took Me *
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 December 2019 18:11 (four years ago) link
(Asterisk means first time on CD.)
What's missing if we're talking this time frame is the Ronnie Scott gig, which at least is readily floating around on YouTube etc., but it would be nice to finally get a formal release of that (audio and video of course).
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 December 2019 18:12 (four years ago) link
So anyway, here's my review of said reissue:
https://thequietus.com/articles/27807-associates-perhaps-review-reissue
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 18:01 (four years ago) link
Great review, Ned.
I picked up the new reissue and one of the things that struck me was how long the core album is - nearly an hour for ten songs! Previously only had it on vinyl and hadn’t realised.
It’s a good record, but sometimes I think the story of ‘Perhaps’ is maybe the most interesting thing about it.
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 18:25 (four years ago) link
Yeah, agreed; there's tracks I'll always love but the backstory really says it all. If the album were more famous I think the making of it would be more known, but it's almost like Billy was just not-quite-famous enough for that backstory to truly get attention; at least we have the Doyle book and these liner notes. I've got a slew of tracks from the sessions floating around, including the original take on "The Best of You" with Gina X, which is miles better than Eddi Reader's.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 18:44 (four years ago) link
I read about the seemingly farcical Perhaps in The Glamour Chase book about 15 years before hearing the album, full expecting it to be something of a car crash yet it is hands down the album I love the most
― PaulTMA, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 19:07 (four years ago) link
I'd have to agree, Paul. Read 'The Glamour Chase' around the time of that 'Perhaps/Glamour Chase' double but never bought it (skint student), assumed both would be very patchy. Only finally heard 'Perhaps' a few years ago and was surprised that it actually holds together pretty well. Reading the story of its fractured and protracted creation before hearing it maybe puts a bit too much baggage on it.
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 21:10 (four years ago) link