King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

how structured were the '73-'74 "blows"? yeah, some. funny that you mention trio, frogbs, as that was a kind of regular thing they did- no main melody, mind, but there are a lot of improvs by that band that sound like "trio".

There is at least one "improv" on the Starless box that is not Copenhagen (possibly Italy) in which they play "Trio" almost note for note. Frankly, given the Bruford story and its rep for being completely improvised, I was a little stunned.

it's nice enough but at a certain point i start feeling like i'm listening to free bird.

Ironically, for a jammy band, Skynyrd jams were super tight and composed. Three guitars, lotta soloing, gotta do some planning.

okay, allmans then?

There is at least one "improv" on the /Starless/ box that is not Copenhagen (possibly Italy) in which they play "Trio" almost note for note. Frankly, given the Bruford story and its rep for being completely improvised, I was a little stunned.

Ok, it's actually Mainz in March of 1974 (and of course I meant Amsterdam not Copenhagen from the previous November). So it appears they were trying to recreate "Trio" after it was improvised? Or did it appear before the 1973 Concertgebouw show as well?

btw does anyone have the slow music project 'live at the croc' cd ripped (or any of/all of the digital live releases)?

as it is these sets kinda feel like they're (unintentionally) writing Belew out of the band's history

― frogbs, Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:09 AM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

as a big Discipline / Beat / ToaPP fan, I've noticed this too. But if I were Belew I'd take the omission of this period as a compliment. Jakko may be very good at "doing" Wetton, but it'd be pretty tough to tackle Belew's singular approach to either guitar or vocals imo. Like him or not, guy is one of a kind

Wanna buy this set but the stuff I have up on eBay right now isn't selling so, err, can't justify it. Coveting it, though.

Also Belew's period in King Crimson was both insanely long and well documented -- the old Crimson songs being revisited are pieces Fripp actively avoided performing because of nasty litigation which he eventually won.

Do you have a source for that last claim? I wasn't aware that litigation could be a bar to live performances of songs.

See also, John Fogerty refusing to play CCR during the copyright lawsuit.

I'm not sure I've ever made it all the way through the Radical Action set, but yesterday I listen to its version of Schizoid Man and really hated it.

Was it mentioned above that the four drummer formation is allegedly touring the us this year?

It wasn't a legal bar -- Fripp was boycotting his own stuff because he didn't want Sinfield or the publishers to get paid. Look at any interview with him from the 90s or 00s, really.

Interesting, I didn't know that. But does that mean that Sinfield and the publishers would have been paid every time Fripp performed one of the old songs? Or is it that live performances of them would stimulate album sales?

Considering he's re-released the entire catalogue several times I don't think it's the latter. The former doesn't really make sense either - do publishers really get royalties from live performances during a tour? Thought it was more Fripp's "always look forward" attitude, plus Belew wasn't so good at imitating the old singers

As I said, check the interviews. The Fripp-approved reissues started when the cases started settling (there were plenty of reissues with no Fripp involvement), and I think Fripp and Sinfield worked out their stuff in the 90s.

Maybe it's aging related chemical changes in the brain, but I used to like KC and now I find them kind of awful.

i don't know, that's odd. typically I've found it's the other way. In fact, I've grown to appreciate KC albums I didn't like initially (Islands, Lizard); although i have also grown to dislike some of the later ones even more than I originally did (construction, power to believe)

"Was it mentioned above that the four drummer formation is allegedly touring the us this year?"

it's actually still just 3 drummers, Rieflin is playing keyboards and sounds

Yeah, I totally got more into KC with age.

I originally only liked the '72-74 lineup(s); now I like everything until that point. The Belew-era stuff and everything after can still fuck off, though.

i don't get people's reluctance to like the 80's albums. those are, all three, awesome records.

I love that period! I might play those as often as any of the others.

The Discipline era of KC does have a very different sound than the earlier incarnation. Few weeks back I put together a playlist couple of those records up with some Talking Heads, early 80s Bowie, Roxy Music, Iggy and The Police and it all fit together really well in that context.

we've discussed this before but Kate Bush's The Dreaming, Peter Gabriel's 3/4(Security), 80's Roxy, Talking Head's FEar of Music/Remain in Light, Bowie's late 70's output and 80's Crimson are certainly of an ilk that is more 'art rock' than 'progressive rock'; this period (from about 77-84) certainly encompasses some of my favorite albums of all time.

I loved 81-84 Crim then and still like them now, but my favorite Fripp artifact from those years is the League of Gentlemen.

yeah that's good too. an artifact of his time in NYC (like 80's crim is really), along with his Heads work and the song he did with Blondie.

I like to think of Fripp cutting off all his hair and shaving at the end of the 70's and moving to NYC just as punk and no wave are getting into full swing.

"Uh, can I play you, um, some of the new things I've been doing that I think could be commercial?"

Exposure FTW here

Him and Eno both hit NYC at just the right time.

This snuck past me -- the Radical Action live album and Heroes EP have been put up on Spotify. Discovered via an interview with David Singleton here -- http://www.makeweirdmusic.com/discover/david-singleton/

seeing them tomorrow night in oakland- psyched

How's the current tour? I could travel to Toronto to see them next week - it is probably unrealistic but idk how many more chances I'll get to see them with Fripp. I realized after the fact that I have tickets to see Buffy Ste Marie in Ottawa the same night they're playing Montreal.

jesus xrist: Mel is quoting "baby elephant walk" in the interlude formerly performed by D Cross in Lark's I on Radical Action etc… Shouldn't it be more like something Schoenberg?

Mancini also a misunderstood (if certifiably untortured) genius so I'm cool with it

mel plays something different in that section every show. he played "i left my heart in san francisco" at the oakland show.

yes, anyone with any passing interest in Crimson should see this tour.

Except me, because I saw them a year and a half ago in a small club and it was great and I'm not sure I needed to see them again in a bigger (albeit beautiful) venue. Where they are I think playing right now.

well, yeah, if you saw them in this iteration no absolute need to see hem this time out, though they are playing Circus, parts of Lizard, and Islands now.

Oh and Fracture

I gotta say that when Josh iIC said probly in this thread that Jakko is more or less like one of those guys going "OMG OMG I'm in my favorite band OMG OMG" it ruined it for me. I can't stand his voice.

it's bizarre to me that Fripp thinks that he should go with this guy, who seems to have hijacked the decision making process to the point where Lizard and Islands songs are strongly emphasized, instead of adrian. Like the guy seems to think that he is restoring KC to its former glory, erasing 1981-2003. Although I see that they're playing some adrian shit. Also bizarre to me that the saddo anorak 70s stans were so offended by Adrian in the first place; maybe Jakko is one of them.

Me and some dudes here in NYC area were gonna go to red bank to see 'em at the Basie theater two mondays from now, but its too difficult to get there on a Monday night, so I hope they come back for NY shows that are not 30 miles away. I do wanna hear shit from Red, Starless and Larks. the drums do sound cataclysmic on the live record. Buncha old ponytails at the show, right?

also occurred to me that KC is the only band of the movement with no dedicated keyboardist. Mcdonald, Cross and Fripp only messed with mellotron secondarily, Tippett didn't join and Rieflin is the first one, really.

counterpoint, Jakko sounds like an amalgam of all Crimson's vocalists from 69-74, certainly not as good as Lake or Wetton but he's better than the other two. I think he handles the early material alright, or at least better than Adrian would've. don't get me wrong I think Adrian's voice is great but IMO it wasn't a good fit when the band dipped into the back catalogue (which was pretty rare, of course). that said I am a bit surprised that they couldn't find a better singer than Jakko, given that this is a fairly high-profile gig, but I can see why they picked him - he knows the stuff well (having been in 21st Century Schizoid Band) and is a pretty accomplished musician in his own right. I kinda feel like Fripp cared more about his capabilities on guitar than his voice.

agreed, jakko is certainly a prog afficionado but he is a great musician. he handles second guitar duties on these songs more than admirably. many parts that fripp handled on the original recordings are played by him extremely well. is it as 'creative' as adrian's approach? no; but this is much more like a recital than a rock show. anyway, adrian had a good run. he was in Crimson longer than anyone else except for Fripp. I'm fine with them doing something else now, as much as I'd actually like to see a stripped down 4 piece handle those 80's songs again.

but I'd also like to see David Cross back too.

I thought Jakko was much better this time around. I thoroughly enjoyed them although as before I still have no idea what Reiflin was doing onstage.

in the middle of Radical's "Construkction" which I really like (2000 album is much much better than Thrak in my view) but man, the FLUTE!!!! Mel's sax is fine, but good grief the flute is sone shit that should stay in 1972…

idk I think it's kinda cool for KC to be bringing back the flutes and 'trons and doing the "what if we wrote this in the 70's" thing. the new "VROOOM" is pretty interesting. wish they did more of that sort of thing.

When I listened to Radical Action a couple times I couldn't shake the blahh eminating from Jakko's voice. Everything else is on point. It's sad that vocals have such an important role in my opinion of this current iteration, because I really can't shake them off. Boringness seethes through his teethe.

yeah at this point I'm enjoying Radical (On "Pictures of A City" presently) only to think that since Fripp doesn't like Sinfield's poesy, they should have played vocal melodies on one instrument or another. Jakko is too much a super fan.

I liked the Poseidon stuff the best from my couple listens.

yeah I think the "Pictures of a City" take on there is the best one I've ever heard

I'm far from a superfan (the last album I bought was Discipline but I loved them up to that point.) I just watched a recent vid of "Easy Money" and was blown away. I don't get the kvetching about Jakko's voice at all; this is exactly what I would want a KC show in 2017 to sound like. Setlists look fantastic to me too, I'm kinda kicking myself for not making the effort to go.