King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

Him and Eno both hit NYC at just the right time.

This snuck past me -- the Radical Action live album and Heroes EP have been put up on Spotify. Discovered via an interview with David Singleton here -- http://www.makeweirdmusic.com/discover/david-singleton/

seeing them tomorrow night in oakland- psyched

How's the current tour? I could travel to Toronto to see them next week - it is probably unrealistic but idk how many more chances I'll get to see them with Fripp. I realized after the fact that I have tickets to see Buffy Ste Marie in Ottawa the same night they're playing Montreal.

jesus xrist: Mel is quoting "baby elephant walk" in the interlude formerly performed by D Cross in Lark's I on Radical Action etc… Shouldn't it be more like something Schoenberg?

Mancini also a misunderstood (if certifiably untortured) genius so I'm cool with it

mel plays something different in that section every show. he played "i left my heart in san francisco" at the oakland show.

yes, anyone with any passing interest in Crimson should see this tour.

Except me, because I saw them a year and a half ago in a small club and it was great and I'm not sure I needed to see them again in a bigger (albeit beautiful) venue. Where they are I think playing right now.

well, yeah, if you saw them in this iteration no absolute need to see hem this time out, though they are playing Circus, parts of Lizard, and Islands now.

Oh and Fracture

I gotta say that when Josh iIC said probly in this thread that Jakko is more or less like one of those guys going "OMG OMG I'm in my favorite band OMG OMG" it ruined it for me. I can't stand his voice.

it's bizarre to me that Fripp thinks that he should go with this guy, who seems to have hijacked the decision making process to the point where Lizard and Islands songs are strongly emphasized, instead of adrian. Like the guy seems to think that he is restoring KC to its former glory, erasing 1981-2003. Although I see that they're playing some adrian shit. Also bizarre to me that the saddo anorak 70s stans were so offended by Adrian in the first place; maybe Jakko is one of them.

Me and some dudes here in NYC area were gonna go to red bank to see 'em at the Basie theater two mondays from now, but its too difficult to get there on a Monday night, so I hope they come back for NY shows that are not 30 miles away. I do wanna hear shit from Red, Starless and Larks. the drums do sound cataclysmic on the live record. Buncha old ponytails at the show, right?

also occurred to me that KC is the only band of the movement with no dedicated keyboardist. Mcdonald, Cross and Fripp only messed with mellotron secondarily, Tippett didn't join and Rieflin is the first one, really.

counterpoint, Jakko sounds like an amalgam of all Crimson's vocalists from 69-74, certainly not as good as Lake or Wetton but he's better than the other two. I think he handles the early material alright, or at least better than Adrian would've. don't get me wrong I think Adrian's voice is great but IMO it wasn't a good fit when the band dipped into the back catalogue (which was pretty rare, of course). that said I am a bit surprised that they couldn't find a better singer than Jakko, given that this is a fairly high-profile gig, but I can see why they picked him - he knows the stuff well (having been in 21st Century Schizoid Band) and is a pretty accomplished musician in his own right. I kinda feel like Fripp cared more about his capabilities on guitar than his voice.

agreed, jakko is certainly a prog afficionado but he is a great musician. he handles second guitar duties on these songs more than admirably. many parts that fripp handled on the original recordings are played by him extremely well. is it as 'creative' as adrian's approach? no; but this is much more like a recital than a rock show. anyway, adrian had a good run. he was in Crimson longer than anyone else except for Fripp. I'm fine with them doing something else now, as much as I'd actually like to see a stripped down 4 piece handle those 80's songs again.

but I'd also like to see David Cross back too.

I thought Jakko was much better this time around. I thoroughly enjoyed them although as before I still have no idea what Reiflin was doing onstage.

in the middle of Radical's "Construkction" which I really like (2000 album is much much better than Thrak in my view) but man, the FLUTE!!!! Mel's sax is fine, but good grief the flute is sone shit that should stay in 1972…

idk I think it's kinda cool for KC to be bringing back the flutes and 'trons and doing the "what if we wrote this in the 70's" thing. the new "VROOOM" is pretty interesting. wish they did more of that sort of thing.

When I listened to Radical Action a couple times I couldn't shake the blahh eminating from Jakko's voice. Everything else is on point. It's sad that vocals have such an important role in my opinion of this current iteration, because I really can't shake them off. Boringness seethes through his teethe.

yeah at this point I'm enjoying Radical (On "Pictures of A City" presently) only to think that since Fripp doesn't like Sinfield's poesy, they should have played vocal melodies on one instrument or another. Jakko is too much a super fan.

I liked the Poseidon stuff the best from my couple listens.

yeah I think the "Pictures of a City" take on there is the best one I've ever heard

I'm far from a superfan (the last album I bought was Discipline but I loved them up to that point.) I just watched a recent vid of "Easy Money" and was blown away. I don't get the kvetching about Jakko's voice at all; this is exactly what I would want a KC show in 2017 to sound like. Setlists look fantastic to me too, I'm kinda kicking myself for not making the effort to go.

I'm seriously considering trying for a press ticket for one of the Red Bank shows.

Jakko is probably the "best" vocalist KC has had since Greg Lake, although his voice is fairly unremarkable and without character.

idk I think Adrian is a pretty good singer

I really wish they had just gone the Projekct route and had these guys all gather to make a racket and improvise.

that element is sorely needed by this group. and with the assembled talent you'd think it has the potential to be ferocious

It's kind of weird. Fripp has assembled this cool motley crew, but this is the first time the band is (more or less) looking backward.

also occurred to me that KC is the only band of the movement with no dedicated keyboardist. Mcdonald, Cross and Fripp only messed with mellotron secondarily, Tippett didn't join and Rieflin is the first one, really.

― veronica moser

ehhh, i'm not sure if i'd go _that_ far. after the moody blues, king crimson are pretty much the definitive mellotron prog band. they had two mellotrons on stage _and_ pete sinfield with his vcs. they never went full-on synth like all the other prog bands, true, but "no dedicated keyboardist" is a technicality.

that element is sorely needed by this group. and with the assembled talent you'd think it has the potential to be ferocious

― Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion)

yeah they could be the biggest ass-kickers in the retirement home

fripp got old. it was bound to happen sometime. him sitting huddled in the corner in an afghan held it off for many years, but guys i think he's just not cool anymore.

https://img.discogs.com/Kdr-azKI389TeHum1YYPLC06GL4=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2353869-1279883912.jpeg.jpg
p sure he's never been cool, still love the man and his music

He was definitely cool when he was hanging out with Blondie and Talking Heads in New York.

i have a framed black and white print of that photo. i need to remember to put it up at work.

loooool

WTF, this thread the last two days.

"Fripp got old"? Seriously?

It's kind of weird. Fripp has assembled this cool motley crew, but this is the first time the band is (more or less) looking backward.

Don't get me wrong – I belatedly fell in love with the Projekts-era/double duo band. Mastelotto in particular is amazing on those recordings. And I'm still warming up to all of Jakko's vocals. But people here make it sound like this band is going thru the motions opening for Jock Bartley's Firefall or something. Between Collins' jazzbo honking, the three-headed drum shit, and Fripp tearing it up at 71—all over these very classy-sounding arrangements—there is some pretty intense music happening here.

I've put in a press ticket request for the first night in Red Bank (a week from Sunday). Haven't heard back yet, but if I go there'll be a long review on Burning Ambulance afterward.

I'll admit that I was a little far gone by the time they hit Prince Rupert Awakes but in the midst of the chaos I had a "what the fuck am I listening to" moment as if I were hearing the music for the first time again. It pretty much ruled.

Love the harmonies on the first minute or so of "sailor's tale"

Fripp's side of his dispute with Belew: https://www.dgmlive.com/diaries/Robert%20Fripp/RF_diary_2017_August_22

fripp is such a fasincatingly terrible writer

Adrian’s concern prompted a telephone conversation between Adrian, Martha Belew, Adrian’s de facto manager, in Mount Juliet and David Singleton, King Crimson manager / minister, in KC’s Denver Hotel-Quite-Acceptable on June 23rd. 2017 (nominally a day off).

Passive aggressive much?

Anyway, Fripp is a dick but he has a point. How come KC can't play stuff that Belew worked on, but Belew can play KC stuff that Fripp co-wrote? Regardless, sounds like Belew quitting was more acrimonious than it was initially made out to be, which is clearly coloring everything that has come after.

seems like, whether bob has the moral and legal right to play that music, Bob and Ade agreed that he wouldn't. That should be the end of it, and Bob doesn't want to say why he didn't honor it.

my friend interviewed adrian and Stewart C. the other day re: the thus far not great sounding new band (I damn sure am going to go see Adrian and Stewart play on the same stage), and Stewart did not let Ade get a word in edgewise, so they didn't discuss the matter with Bob.

I saw KC like 10 times btwn 1995-2003, and am excited to see 'em again in Nov for the first time since then, even if I think Jakko is pretty suck-ass and, like JiC said awhile ago, is like "OMG OMG I'm in my favorite band" and is tricking Bob into playing shitty Lizard and Islands material (but not "a Sailor's Tale"?).

It's hard to tell who to believe, especially now that we know the split was somewhat acrimonious. Sounds almost like Belew made demands and, when he didn't get them, he quit, so Fripp figured (disingenuously?) any verbal agreement was null?

The telephone conversation between Adrian and myself (September 9th. 2013), which ended with Adrian believing us to have an agreement, was more monologue than dialogue: dudgeon was high, grapes were sour. Adrian made an opening statement, followed by three demands, and a final declaration (that Adrian was not prepared to be The Eighth Man, and was quitting the band).

which is it: ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) or bob said "you're not right for this rendition of KC."

initially the latter seemed accurate, but I think Fripp was being cagey. Adrian was not a good match for the band, because he did not want to be the 8th man.

it really seems weird that at this stage, with this many players, Fripp is suddenly claiming to be splitting everything equally.

??? When has he not?