King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

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idk I think Adrian is a pretty good singer

frogbs, Thursday, 29 June 2017 17:48 (seven years ago) link

I really wish they had just gone the Projekct route and had these guys all gather to make a racket and improvise.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 June 2017 19:10 (seven years ago) link

that element is sorely needed by this group. and with the assembled talent you'd think it has the potential to be ferocious

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 29 June 2017 19:33 (seven years ago) link

It's kind of weird. Fripp has assembled this cool motley crew, but this is the first time the band is (more or less) looking backward.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 June 2017 20:05 (seven years ago) link

also occurred to me that KC is the only band of the movement with no dedicated keyboardist. Mcdonald, Cross and Fripp only messed with mellotron secondarily, Tippett didn't join and Rieflin is the first one, really.

― veronica moser

ehhh, i'm not sure if i'd go _that_ far. after the moody blues, king crimson are pretty much the definitive mellotron prog band. they had two mellotrons on stage _and_ pete sinfield with his vcs. they never went full-on synth like all the other prog bands, true, but "no dedicated keyboardist" is a technicality.

Rodney Stooksbury for President (rushomancy), Friday, 30 June 2017 01:26 (seven years ago) link

that element is sorely needed by this group. and with the assembled talent you'd think it has the potential to be ferocious

― Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion)

yeah they could be the biggest ass-kickers in the retirement home

fripp got old. it was bound to happen sometime. him sitting huddled in the corner in an afghan held it off for many years, but guys i think he's just not cool anymore.

The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Friday, 30 June 2017 01:28 (seven years ago) link

He was definitely cool when he was hanging out with Blondie and Talking Heads in New York.

heaven parker (anagram), Friday, 30 June 2017 07:53 (seven years ago) link

i have a framed black and white print of that photo. i need to remember to put it up at work.

The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Friday, 30 June 2017 12:32 (seven years ago) link

loooool

frogbs, Friday, 30 June 2017 13:13 (seven years ago) link

WTF, this thread the last two days.

"Fripp got old"? Seriously?

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 1 July 2017 00:24 (seven years ago) link

It's kind of weird. Fripp has assembled this cool motley crew, but this is the first time the band is (more or less) looking backward.

Yup, and in that sense it's new. I've been listening to Radical Action on Spotify for the last few days – and it has some pretty intense renditions. Pictures of a City is exceptional. Easy Money—a song I didn't need to hear another version of again—absolutely shreds.

Don't get me wrong – I belatedly fell in love with the Projekts-era/double duo band. Mastelotto in particular is amazing on those recordings. And I'm still warming up to all of Jakko's vocals. But people here make it sound like this band is going thru the motions opening for Jock Bartley's Firefall or something. Between Collins' jazzbo honking, the three-headed drum shit, and Fripp tearing it up at 71—all over these very classy-sounding arrangements—there is some pretty intense music happening here.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 1 July 2017 00:42 (seven years ago) link

I've put in a press ticket request for the first night in Red Bank (a week from Sunday). Haven't heard back yet, but if I go there'll be a long review on Burning Ambulance afterward.

grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 1 July 2017 00:43 (seven years ago) link

I'll admit that I was a little far gone by the time they hit Prince Rupert Awakes but in the midst of the chaos I had a "what the fuck am I listening to" moment as if I were hearing the music for the first time again. It pretty much ruled.

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 1 July 2017 05:36 (seven years ago) link

Love the harmonies on the first minute or so of "sailor's tale"

calstars, Saturday, 1 July 2017 05:41 (seven years ago) link

one month passes...

fripp is such a fasincatingly terrible writer

mark s, Saturday, 26 August 2017 14:12 (seven years ago) link

Adrian’s concern prompted a telephone conversation between Adrian, Martha Belew, Adrian’s de facto manager, in Mount Juliet and David Singleton, King Crimson manager / minister, in KC’s Denver Hotel-Quite-Acceptable on June 23rd. 2017 (nominally a day off).

Passive aggressive much?

Anyway, Fripp is a dick but he has a point. How come KC can't play stuff that Belew worked on, but Belew can play KC stuff that Fripp co-wrote? Regardless, sounds like Belew quitting was more acrimonious than it was initially made out to be, which is clearly coloring everything that has come after.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 14:37 (seven years ago) link

seems like, whether bob has the moral and legal right to play that music, Bob and Ade agreed that he wouldn't. That should be the end of it, and Bob doesn't want to say why he didn't honor it.

veronica moser, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:07 (seven years ago) link

my friend interviewed adrian and Stewart C. the other day re: the thus far not great sounding new band (I damn sure am going to go see Adrian and Stewart play on the same stage), and Stewart did not let Ade get a word in edgewise, so they didn't discuss the matter with Bob.

I saw KC like 10 times btwn 1995-2003, and am excited to see 'em again in Nov for the first time since then, even if I think Jakko is pretty suck-ass and, like JiC said awhile ago, is like "OMG OMG I'm in my favorite band" and is tricking Bob into playing shitty Lizard and Islands material (but not "a Sailor's Tale"?).

veronica moser, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:15 (seven years ago) link

It's hard to tell who to believe, especially now that we know the split was somewhat acrimonious. Sounds almost like Belew made demands and, when he didn't get them, he quit, so Fripp figured (disingenuously?) any verbal agreement was null?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:18 (seven years ago) link

The telephone conversation between Adrian and myself (September 9th. 2013), which ended with Adrian believing us to have an agreement, was more monologue than dialogue: dudgeon was high, grapes were sour. Adrian made an opening statement, followed by three demands, and a final declaration (that Adrian was not prepared to be The Eighth Man, and was quitting the band).

May contain peanuts, tree nuts, soy, wheat, pits or pit fragments. (WilliamC), Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:26 (seven years ago) link

which is it: ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) or bob said "you're not right for this rendition of KC."

veronica moser, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:34 (seven years ago) link

initially the latter seemed accurate, but I think Fripp was being cagey. Adrian was not a good match for the band, because he did not want to be the 8th man.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:46 (seven years ago) link

it really seems weird that at this stage, with this many players, Fripp is suddenly claiming to be splitting everything equally.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:46 (seven years ago) link

??? When has he not?

May contain peanuts, tree nuts, soy, wheat, pits or pit fragments. (WilliamC), Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:58 (seven years ago) link

has he always claimed that?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:59 (seven years ago) link

"ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) "

it's money; adrian wanted everyone but him and fripp to be paid as sidemen. fripp also says in there that he demanded this in 82, and again several years ago. I'm surprised that Levin and Mastoletto play with him on the side (they do the Crimson Project thing once or twice a year) given all of that.

akm, Saturday, 26 August 2017 16:46 (seven years ago) link

It's always money. But then, this I imagine is KCs longest, most lucrative tour in forever, so more money.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link

another thing: I don't think this tour would be doing as well as it is with adrian. people have had 20/30 years of adrian KC, this is different and providing something people have really wanted to hear for a long time.

akm, Saturday, 26 August 2017 17:03 (seven years ago) link

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here

https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

akm, Sunday, 27 August 2017 03:06 (seven years ago) link

I'm a fan of all King Crimson line-ups and have an unusual favourite in Islands - which is one of my all-time favourite albums-, Lizard comes second for me.
So I'm really happy to see Fripp revisiting those songs. I've seen the current KC incarnation live a couple of years ago and loved it, obviously especially Sailor's Tale and The Letters.
Looking at recent setlist I see that they now also started playing the title track (also Lizard's title track and Cirkus). I really want to see them again now!

It's a shame that things are weird with Adrian now, though. He's done amazing work in the band and has been a key player for a long time. But at least he does admit still having some love for Fripp in that interview.

Valentijn, Monday, 28 August 2017 09:15 (seven years ago) link

"Singer/guitarist who has failed to deliver upon the tremendous promise of a past project starts making crazy demands on present and future plans for that past project" is a dynamic I am way familiar with and a tale as old as time, and passive-aggressive or not, I am leaning toward Fripp's side here.

Three Word Username, Monday, 28 August 2017 10:03 (seven years ago) link

(The above was a secret message to old school emo fans who know.)

Three Word Username, Monday, 28 August 2017 10:05 (seven years ago) link

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here

https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

so which is it, was Belew just unceremoniously sacked, or was he unwilling to be the 8th man on stage? because I've heard it both ways.

Fripp is kinda oafish about this as always but whatever, it *is* his band and besides, kinda lame of Adrian to insist that they don't play his stuff onstage, when his set consists of a bunch of 80's KC material. I mean who cares.

frogbs, Monday, 28 August 2017 13:49 (seven years ago) link

Sounds like both. Belew and Fripp had a conversation, Fripp asked Belew if he wanted to be involved, Belew said something like yeah, but not as a sideman, since I wrote a lot of our stuff, so if I have to be a sideman I'd just as soon not do it and please don't play those songs. No way to know (though at this rate we might find out), but it sounds like in Belew's mind (and there is no way to know the tone of the conversation) that he explained himself. And then basically Fripp called his bluff and said, OK, Adrian and Fripp are not working together in this incarnation. To which Belew no doubt thought, fine, be that way, so I guess that means he's not playing my stuff. Which KC didn't - the first couple of legs. But now that stuff is sneaking in, and Below probably feels doubly betrayed. Like, Fripp can do whatever he wants, but it does sound like he maybe broke a friendly agreement, which makes things less friendly. Which is sort of ironic, since Fripp has been a squeaky wheel about contracts and rights and stuff like that for decades.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 28 August 2017 14:01 (seven years ago) link

after seeing them on the first Elements tour, I thought Neurotica would be well suited to the way they were doing the songs, so I was glad to hear it. I haven't heard the new take on Indiscipline, but it strikes me as a weird choice. I guess if we hear Mel Collins tooting out 'babble, burble, brouhaha' then it's really a middle finger to Ade.

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 28 August 2017 14:38 (seven years ago) link

"Fripp asked Belew if he wanted to be involved"

actually, no, Fripp told him this KC wasn't for him, but he could remain as the '8th man' ie: in waiting for another iteration to come along, as Tony did at some point.

akm, Monday, 28 August 2017 15:33 (seven years ago) link

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here
https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

It's a shame that things are weird with Adrian now, though. He's done amazing work in the band and has been a key player for a long time. But at least he does admit still having some love for Fripp in that interview.

passive-aggressive or not, I am leaning toward Fripp's side here.

I generally agree w all of this and won't repeat what others have said here. It's a bummer that these two are having these problems so publicly. Perhaps inevitable given that it sounds like Belew and Fripp have had some of these issues going on 30 years. But for instance, Fripp actually crashes in the basement of Belew's house/studio when they are working together, recording or preparing for a tour. They are very close, which I think made it particularly hard on Belew to be told he wouldn't be a featured member of the current lineup.

I will say: you do almost get the sense, however, that Belew doesn't quite understand (or perhaps Fripp didn't really tell him) why he wouldn't have been right for singing songs from Lizard, etc. It's almost like Belew was like, "Ok, if I'm not right to sing *your* songs, you won't sing any of *mine.*" And, of course, that doesn't quite add up, as Fripp was present for the creation of all these songs -- and Belew wasn't (IIRC, Fripp didn't have a co-write on "ItCock").

At any rate, I have been going through a huge ProjeKcts and 'Aughts-era KC phase of late and am really looking forward to the fall tour. But you hope they work something out. Or at least, as Singleton suggested, they stop negotiating all this via social media.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 31 August 2017 19:21 (seven years ago) link

I can't believe 2 old guys would behave this way

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 31 August 2017 20:43 (seven years ago) link

Yeah, but they're *our* old guys.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:42 (seven years ago) link

remember when Fripp said THRAK was an album about “mature men who still get erections”? Maybe they're just a bit testy

Dominique, Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:44 (seven years ago) link

Fripp just posted this on FB:

Have just toasted Brother Ade at a distance with a Slinky Toes' Monster Margarita. There are no current plans for Adrian to come out with the current formation; but in Crimson's strange history there is a tendency for things to come around. So, Adrian has rejoined the larger family - hooray! - and doors to the future are open. So, no plans, but who knows what the future holds?

Right now, I'm looking forward to Gizmodrome and getting a few more guitar lessons...

Someone else has suggested that Belew may well be on board for 50th anniversary tour dates in 2019. As a confirmed Belew skeptic, I'm glad I saw the show I saw.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 3 September 2017 21:02 (seven years ago) link

They'd have enough members for 2 crims to do 2 shows simultaneously side by side

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 3 September 2017 21:04 (seven years ago) link

could go the Yes route - Fripp, Ade, and Pat (FAP) as Crim-classic, then a bunch of satellite members as King Crimson official

frogbs, Sunday, 3 September 2017 21:06 (seven years ago) link

they need another horn player now

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 4 September 2017 21:28 (seven years ago) link

Not gonna lie: that post (and what Ade says amidst the comments) makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. These two dorks are just two goddamned good at what they do together to be all resentful of each other. 🤗

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 6 September 2017 02:48 (seven years ago) link

Man, DGM just dropped this today:

Sailors’ Tale (1970 - 1972)

21 CDs of studio & live material from 1970/2, 4 BD discs of studio/live material (audio), 2 DVDs of live material (audio),
12” box with booklet & memorabilia, bonus downloadable concert

The complete 1970-72 King Crimson boxed set: 21CDS/4Blu-Rays/2DVD – all audio.
3CDs feature Steven Wilson & Robert Fripp stereo mixes of In The Wake Of Poseidon (1970), Lizard (1970) & Islands (1971) + additional tracks.
6CDs feature the Islands line-ups early concerts from Germany (new to CD) & the UK (1971).
9CDs feature live recordings (several new to CD and/or previously unreleased in any format) from the 1972 US tour, including a new stereo mix of Summit Studios & an expanded Earthbound.
3CDs feature auditions for the Islands band & two further, as yet, unidentified concerts from 1972 (all previously unreleased)
3 Blu-Ray discs contain the main studio albums in 5.1 Surround Sound & recent stereo editions mixed by Steven Wilson & Robert Fripp + 30th anniversary masters of the original stereo albums mixes (all in 24/96 hi-res), plus extensive additional material with each disc also featuring a complete alternate album + a further selection of additional, related studio/live material in hi-res.
Lizard Blu-Ray: also contains the audition material from CDs19/20

Islands Blu-Ray: also contains the following concerts in stereo Zoom Club (4 shows), Marquee Club, Plymouth, Glasgow, Detroit all from 1971.
Earthbound Tour: Blu-Ray features an expanded version of the original album, Summit Studios gig in Stereo & Quadraphonic (newly mixed), the Schizoid Men sequence from the Ladies of the Road album, 2 newly discovered concerts in hi-res stereo & every existing soundboard concert recording from the 1972 US tour: Wilmington, NYC (2 shows), Chicago (2 tracks only), Detroit, Jacksonville, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Peoria, Indianapolis & Denver (2 shows).
2 DVDs feature the expanded Earthbound, Summit Studios, Schizoid Men, New York 1972 & the recently discovered live concerts.
12” box with booklet, memorabilia, a further downloadable concert, new sleeve-notes by Sid Smith, Jakko Jakszyk & David Singleton

https://www.dgmlive.com/news/27%20Disc%20Boxed%20Set%20Pre-order

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 7 September 2017 17:16 (seven years ago) link

jeez

sleeve, Thursday, 7 September 2017 17:22 (seven years ago) link


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