IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

i enjoy the way he over-enunciates as a young man. like someone said to him it's important that we understand all the words

totally!

it's probably more proto-air supply than anything tbh

but even in that category it's head and shoulders above. like, compared with the overwrought verging on gross "baby ima want you" syrup that will be pouring into listeners ears in the coming years, it's great

Just based on this song, in a vacuum, I would've expected him to turn into more of a Manilow-type than he ever ended up being.

the path of earnest songwriting is fraught with danger

it's funny I haven't heard joel and manilow compared much - sure their careersan attitudes and styles are quite different, but as showtunes holdouts and staples of the adult contemporary charts... idk

joel has way better songwriting (as this thread will hopefully bear out) - it's his abilities as a storyteller that navigated him out of those waters imo

manilow had good hooks but his lyrics are pretty bad, more like long commercial jingles

though i agree with dr c that there's not much to the lyric on "she's got a way," it's A-plus compared to most of what we're going to be listening to over the next week and a half, simply by virtue of billy not trying too hard. he's infatuated with a girl, he says so, he rhymes "about her" with "without her," he tosses in a bridge, he's done. he can do worse, much worse, and he will. and the melody sticks. a telling start to his career: he's a piano man with a gift for a hook and not a lot to say, not yet.

having not heard cold spring harbor in years, i miss the octave vocal leap that ends the song in the songs from the attic version. that was a nice touch.

This recording is from a 1980s remix correcting a legendary mastering goof on the original record

warning: they also re-recorded the backing tracks on a couple songs, without billy's involvement. the relationship between family productions' artie ripp, who signed him and owned these masters, deteriorated fast, and though billy quickly dumped him for columbia, ripp won a lot in the divorce: he owned a piece of billy's next ten (!) albums, and his logo appears on all of them.

christ that's awful, the music industry really is full of absolute bandits.

i love how he put out 'Greatest Hits I And II' as one CD/album, not bothering with the traditional 1 and 2 volumes separated by say half a decade like most folk.

http://www.thatericalper.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Attila-008.jpg

We're going to pretend this never happened?

re: Manilow and jingles, I had no idea he actually did some of that! "Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there" - wow. Another difference, as Attila reminds us, is that for all his wistful balladeering, Billy wants to ROCK, and to be thought of as a rocker. This too connects him with Lennon and McCartney much more than Manilow or most of the other archetypal singer-songwriters.

I had floated the idea of including Attila and the Hassles in this thread but ppl pointed out that they were distinct "things," and anyway we were looking at a lot of tracks on this thread. But I think ppl should check 'em out - we could do a short pause after CSH and just say "today is Attila Day," rather than going track by track... idk!

I mean I guess people can also just talk about it whenever, also! Just thinking in the spirit of dedicated group experience or w/e.

The ratio of "discussion of Attila as music" to "lol, that cover" is historically quite lopsided. Not that I want to be the person to correct the imbalance - just sayin.

"She's Got a Way" is gr8 btw

Woah, hadn't realized we had started this!

So, "She's Got a Way." The version I know is the Greatest Hits one, which is the Songs From the Attic one, and this is my first time hearing the CSH version. I've always found it decent but unexceptional, not to mention tonally jarring within the chronological ordering of GH, sandwiched between the more, uh, muscular 80s material.

Listening to the original for the first time, I can see why he went with a later version. The mixing on CSH really is disgusting and I imagine that it will make the next 9 days of this thread something of a slog.

There is a piece from Entertainment Weekly from around the time of River of Dreams where Billy offered brief commentary on all of his albums. I tried to dig it up, but I couldn't find it. Also, EW's website is the worst.

Basically, as I recall, Billy dismisses the record due to the mastering error, claiming that he can't ever listen to it. Having my first taste of it just now, I can see why.

Tuneful prettiness. Not bad.

affectations and fumbles and evident desire to be Paul McCartney and all

Listening to the Chipmunk version you linked above (only being familiar with the GH version before) and given the year, it strikes me that this is definitely his attempt at re-writing "Maybe I'm Amazed."

CSH is canon, but I can't help but always thinking of Piano Man as his first record.

Similar to Bowie.

(Just thought I'd beat the rest of you to writing out that last sentence.)

(see also: warren zevon)

ATTENTION! NATALIE MAINES IS NOT A LESBIAN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPxllU2WUak

I know singers have been tweaking lyrics to suit their gender/orientation for decades, but shifting it from first-person to third-person changes the context too much.

centuries

The song's vagueness--he likes this woman, but can't quite isolate her particular qualities--nicely mirrors my own ambiguous feelings towards it.

It's a vague sentiment, sure, but it's light-years better than "Always a Woman," in which the message is "she's a heinous bitch but I like her anyway."

i like this, nice little song

love the cover, i love how period it looks, like it could be some long forgotten "lost classic" reissued by Light in the Attic

though I'm pretty impressed, for a first song on a first album this feels very much like a "Billy Joel" song, like he's got his aesthetic and identity right out of the gate, like Black Sabbath or something

new goal of this listening thread: to pinpoint the moment he loses his hopeful high voice

The vagueness also makes it one of VERY FEW love songs that a father could plausibly dedicate to a daughter and have it come off in a not-totally-creepy way.

This may venture into uber-maudlin TMI territory, but: the line "she's got a smile that heals me" does in fact make me think of my daughter. I know it's corny as hell but there it is.

no that's otm

and lovely <3

for a first song on a first album this feels very much like a "Billy Joel" song, like he's got his aesthetic and identity right out of the gate, like Black Sabbath or something

haha. but i'm not sure he truly finds his "billy joel" voice until track 3 on this album.

his hopeful high voice

sounds like he's channelling paul mccartney via emitt rhodes, who at this particular point in time was making better billy joel records than billy joel was.

true!

I don't know if its the pitch issue, but his voice sounds more shaky than I expected. Starting from "Piano Man" on, his voice has a confidence that he never loses - I just figured he always had it. Interesting to hear, actually

i think he's trying to go for lilting & comes off as slightly petrified haha

yeah track three is KEY to joel's entire steez going forward, looking forward to that.

agreed about trying to sound lilting. ATTILA reminds us that he did already know how to sing in a more forceful and confident manner, so this here is as much a "poetic" affectation as his bellows over there are an attempt to find his "hard rock" voice.

"maybe i'm amazed" is a very apt comparison - and it, too, wasn't a hit until a live album years later! I picture joel watching it rise on the charts in 1976, clenching his fists, blood boiling at the CSH screwups all over again, and swearing that if HE ever gets big enough to merit a live album, he knows just what the single will be and won't THAT show 'em all? "your song" also probably had to be on somebody's mind, the label's if not the artist's.

like he's got his aesthetic and identity right out of the gate, like Black Sabbath or something running down the road, trying to loosen its load....

i'm guessing this song's about the other member of attila's wife (later to be his own).

i'd always understood that the "mastering error" is because they wanted to cram too many minutes of music onto the album.

so many wives...

like he's got his aesthetic and identity right out of the gate, like Black Sabbath or something running down the road, trying to loosen its load....

― pplains, Monday, July 17, 2017 12:41 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you know...for some reason it never occurred to me till this very second that the protagonist of "Take it Easy" was shitting his pants

i'd lump the eagles in with billy as a band who didn't achieve their full aesthetic and identity until track three of their debut album. chug all night y'all.

i'd always understood that the "mastering error" is because they wanted to cram too many minutes of music onto the album

I hadn't heard that specifically about CSH. But I have heard that "Silver Springs" was kept off Rumours partly because the resulting length would have mean that they could just BARELY fit it in only by narrowing the grooves and unacceptably compromising the bass response.

Tangent: Interesting to think about the degree to which actual physical limitations were relevant - all of this in living memory. Les Paul was faking multitracking by ping-ponging, then the Beatles were on four tracks, then eight, then DSotM, then Steely Dan's automated mixes, then ProTools... all of this has happened within the lifespan of specific known humans. The time from the Wright brother's first flight to walking on muthaflippin moon? Many of us have grandparents who lived through both.

agreed about trying to sound lilting. ATTILA reminds us that he did already know how to sing in a more forceful and confident manner, so this here is as much a "poetic" affectation as his bellows over there are an attempt to find his "hard rock" voice.

Ah gotcha. I ain't heard CSH yet, so I sure as hell ain't heard Attila yet

so....does someone want me to post the next song? We can't break the streak.

I thought "She's Got a Way" was today's song?

yeah i figured that too

let's not pre-empt the Doctor yet

...not a huge fan, but i recently was gifted MFSL flacs from his "classic" years. so i might become a convert during the span of this thread.

the TV show Preacher used Uptown Girl to somewhat amusing effect in a recent episode

Don't know/haven't seen, but The Simpsons owns classic use of that song.

Hey yeah, sorry, was waiting til tonight... I'm stoked that people are gnawing at the bit for this thread!

Our next track underwent some of the biggest alterations in the 1983 remix of Cold Spring Harbor, losing a full three minutes of running time - which, since we're dealing with track two here, seriously affects the pacing of the album. I'm sticking with a 'homemade' pitch-corrected version (credit to YouTuber TheZestanor). Bask in the sudden expansion of the arrangement: drums, searing guitar work, and some sweet sweet backing vocals. It's You Can Make Me Free:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNdRLwRLGE

The truncated and otherwise altered 1983 remix can be heard here, as well as on Spotify, etc. The Chipmunk version does not appear to be online anywhere handy, but I think we'll all live without it.

Downeaster ilxor

Downeaster ilxor

Omg lol

also starring in the doc: lots and lots of alcohol

Tonic and gin?

Perhaps a bottle of rose instead?

Thanks for the breakdown, fcc - I'd like to see that!

Never realized until this morning in a Panera that "Keeping The Faith" is basically cod reggae.

that is the best place for such a realization lol

HUWUNN
TWOOOO
HWUN TWOO THREEE FAWW

― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl),

xpost-haha
Was playing in the background! Also thought how this might be the most untroubled BJ song.

wow, looking forward to this. What's the story re Elton?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DK2J6v5Au5v/?igsh=YnNqbTZwMGFkbWt6

idgi

wtf of course you get it this is not a hard thing to get stfu

We did have extensive discussion of egocentrism and condescension inherent in the lyrics of Bill the Piano Man. Therefore I thought the imagined "view from the perspective of 'the Waitress'" was thread-relevant.

I don't think that video is necessarily on point or well-imagined in every particular, but it is... a joke.

Mainly, I share the vlogger's dim view of the lyric "it's me they've been comin' to see." Bullshit. Alcoholics don't go to bars for the fucking piano playing, you self-aggrandizing schmuck. It's the booze.

John at the bar is funny and helpful, but here's the thing: he's also serving drinks, which is the actual reason people are feelin' all right.

Cute video. For those unready to open the entire thread, our own coverage of these issues starts at this permalink: IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

Now igi. I didn’t have the names of the characters that horrid song memorized, sorry

lol if you're gonna permatroll a fan thread you can probably try harder than "what is the joke in the video where she jokes about the lyrics in this song... does it have something to do with the lyrics ??... which by the way SUCK hahahaha!!"

Makes me want to have a soda and scotch

Billy Joel hive: you all gotta watch the new HBO doc! (pt 1 aired yesterday)

It is really personal & well crafted, not like a shitty wikipedia doc … impressive level of detail imo

Hassles content! Attila content!!

Huey Joel

Also getting his first wife Elizabeth to do such extensive interviews really puts it over the top right away. She’s so important for the emotional story.
(also goddamn still a knockout wow)

anyway i’ll shut up

Also getting his first wife Elizabeth to do such extensive interviews really puts it over the top right away. She’s so important for the emotional story.

yes! it's almost as much her story as it is his story (part one, anyway).

right!? really insightful filmmaking. also I dug the way they waited to tell about his childhood & his mom & dad, the framing of that was good too.

yeah that was really well done!

Love the subtle Mr. Cacciatore call outs

Part 1 was fantastic stuff, felt like everyone was interested in telling it right rather than their own agendas, which is pretty rare. When it ended I realised that was pretty much the point I stopped being a fan (at the tender age of 13) and I can’t imagine part 2 will have much to offer me. But what a superb job by the directors and editors.

yeah, I didn't know anything about Billy's personal life other than the fact he was married to Christie Brinkley (who hasn't even been invoked yet) so when the film first mentions Elizabeth as the wife of his buddy from Atilla and shows her talking on camera for the first time I was like wow, she looks incredible, of course subsequently learning that she became rich along with Billy (often largely due to her managerial wisdom) made it much more explicable.

i really enjoyed her insights into some of the songs, (especially Stiletto!)

I am looking forward to watching this but does it have any sequences of people in front of a mixing console, isolating tracks and remarking on their grooviness?

That is a key feature of rock documentaries and I cannot get enough of it

no it does not

Weirdly, as soon as I turned 50 I started to respect his songcraft a bit more. Not enough to play him on purpose though, lol.

I saw Weird Al at Madison Square Garden last weekend, his first time there. He joked that he only had 149 more to go to beat Billy's record.

Way more interesting than I expected going in. Agree with the point above, part 1 is really the Billy and Elizabeth show. She’s a star, no way Billy’s career does as well without her driving the train.

Also gotta give a shout out to Liberty DeVitto’s “Brooklyn Vinnies” cap. Primo

Garth Durst

Really need a gif of Billy licking his harmonica.

I really don't.

The "Uptown Girl" headlight polishing gif is the only gif I need.

https://i.imgur.com/Wawj5V5.gif

5 hrs of documentary goes by pretty fast...

1. Elizabeth is cool and looks great
2. Christine Brinkley also looks great/has a good plastic surgeon
3. That whole holocaust backstory, was not not prepared for that, seems like the key to his anxious asshole personality.
4. For all the money and success, would anyone want to be Billy? So many people upthread talking about associating this music with childhood (me too) and I wonder if Billy is a 10 year olds idea of an adult, in the same way Jordan Peterson is a stupid persons idea of an intellectual.

And is that some sort of cigar vape he's clutching?

It is indeed. (It's not as 'hmm' as realizing that both his most recent ex-wife and his current spouse are both essentially the same age as Alexa.)

Though no real fan, I did enjoy the watch -- it's a good memory trawl and I pretty much know all the big singles and a couple of deep cuts just through cultural osmosis as a kid so it was a good prompt, and yes, a lot of remarkable comments and points of view beyond Billy himself making it notably better than the norm. (I suspect Bruce's praise in particular will also have caused a lot of 70s/early 80s critics to have felt a REAL burn.) One curious thing about it, though, and I know I'm not the only one who picked up on this: so obviously we get a lot about him as a musician, his training and connections as piano player and songwriter, we also get via the various lyric sheets a hint of him on that front plus the mentions of him being a heavy reader in general and his knowledge of musical theater and so forth, and finally there's plenty of examples of him as a performer throughout his career. The one thing that's kinda missing in the documentary the whole time, outside of just a bare glancing hint here or there: no sense of him as a *singer* -- and I distinguish that from being a performer with stage presence. If he didn't have that going for him, he presumably could just simply have been a songwriter, but no, the guy's got a distinct vocal instrument, and notably (in comparison to Elton, say) he's kept it all this time. It would have been interesting to get more talk on that: not just in terms of influences as such, but whatever training he did or didn't have, how he maintains it, and so forth. It's a little odd to me that it's almost talked around -- maybe everyone just takes it as read? Even so, though.

(Side note too -- I found it verrrrrry interesting that yeah, we get Elizabeth, we unsurprisingly don't get her thieving brother...but nothing from her ABOUT her thieving brother and how his involvement happened to start with? I'm guessing there's some no-go zones/NDAs or something at work. Is the dude even still alive?)

Hey “always a woman”, “just like a woman” called

Saw the doc and it made me a do a complete180 of my opinion of dude

I don’t know what the music is behind these lyrics but they are straight fire

Some people stay far away from the door
If there's a chance of it opening up
They hear a voice in the hall outside
And hope that it just passes by
Some people live with the fear of a touch
And the anger of having been a fool
They will not listen to anyone
So nobody tells them a lie