my main problem w this song is that the cast of characters are poorly conceived, adorned with sloppy details and described with clumsy lines that don't really scan
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 July 2017 20:35 (seven years ago) link
Wow, "Walkin' in Memphis" is a great connection - and it's also constructed as a series of encounters with various characters (some more fleshed-out than others), with the musical anointment coming at the end of the last verse.
― ﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Friday, 28 July 2017 20:35 (seven years ago) link
I wonder, without that "what are YOU doin' here?" would the default reading lean so hard on the songwriter's pretensions?
Yes. Because that's only one of the douchey self-congratulatory lines. You also have to contend with (1) the pianist knowing that the manager knows that the pianist is the draw, (2) the pianist knowing that he has correctly read the mood of the room, and (3) the pianist knowing that it is he who has them "feelin' alright."
This seems very presumptuous, and downplays the role played by alcohol, which one preumes accounts for some of the audience "feelin' alright."
Also it insults John, who not only works hard at serving people drinks, but he is also an entertainer of sorts, a smoking enabler, and a personal confidant. He is at least as responsible for the crowd's good mood as Bill is!
Also there is no such drink as a "tonic and gin." I could potentially forgive every other problem with this sobg, but not that one.
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 20:37 (seven years ago) link
where do you stand on "ah la, deh dee dahh"
― ﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Friday, 28 July 2017 20:39 (seven years ago) link
Also there is no such drink as a "tonic and gin."
ugh yeah this kind of shit - which is just bad writing in the service of a forced rhyme - drives me up the wall
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 July 2017 20:41 (seven years ago) link
Crap this thread is moving fast.
I also wanted to echo Dr. C in saying that this song contributed to my childhood sense of what adulthood was like.
There is a passage in Annie Dillard's American Childhood where she addresses "x walks unto a bar" jokes. She notes it as given that an 8-year-old girl will naturally understand what it is like to walk into a bar. The regulars will be there, the bartender will be wiping the bar with a cloth, etc.
I wonder how much of our sense of "x walks into a bar" comes from actual bars, how much from the TV show Cheers... and how much from this fucking song.
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link
I knew it led to the Cheers theme, but had not until now thought about its relation to Walking in Memphis. That is a great point, Eazy.
I think somewhere ILM has discussed "Late in the Evening," specifically the extent to which Paul Simon "blew that room away."
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 20:49 (seven years ago) link
specifically the extent to which Paul Simon "blew that room away."
and bon jovi has seen a million faces and rocked 'em all. and paul stanley will drive you crazy. and and and...
is it douchey to know you're the guy everyone came to see and to know you can in fact rock 'em all while they're nursing their tonic-and-gins and to be a little arrogant about it, or is it only douchey because you're sitting at a piano and you're an easy-listening singer-songwriter with a harmonica strapped around your neck? would it be less douchey if you were wearing leather and screaming? is the sentiment douchey, or just the manner in which it's delivered?
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:15 (seven years ago) link
I wonder how much of our sense of "x walks into a bar" comes from actual bars, how much from the TV show Cheers... and how much from this fucking song
this song! this song is *still* what i think a bar is supposed to look and smell and feel like!
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:18 (seven years ago) link
FCC et al., you people continue to amaze and delight me, with your willingness to keep unpacking new aspects of this completely overexposed bit of boomer culture. Thank you.
Backing upthread to Dr C - la dee dah etc. is fine here! In fact, comparatively laudable.
Inside the frame narrative, the old man is trying to hum, to Bill, the melody of the song he's trying to recall and request.
For me, that is like Ilsa in Casablanca humming "As Time Goes By" to get Sam to play it, after Sam claims to not remember the tune.
Much more defensible, lyrically, than the lazy LIE LA LIE bits of Paul Simon's "The Boxer" and Bruce Springsteen's "The Rising."
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 21:27 (seven years ago) link
• Did not know this came out in November 1973 -- the month I was born!
• Still go huh? when he says they're all getting stoned. I guess "drunk" doesn't have the same cadence to it, but it's such a weed word.
• Song does have classic wordplay like ''real estate novelist,'' but there are phrases like "when I wore a younger man's clothes" that sound like, well, they fit in there and worked ok? Stop hassling Billy!
• But seriously, I still wear flannel shirts that I wore in college. The pants, maybe not so much.
• And I've said it before, and I'll say it again: No person has ever ordered a "tonic and gin" unless they were trying to be cute about the song.
― pplains, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:31 (seven years ago) link
would everyone still find this song terrible if it wasn't so heavily & mercilessly overplayed?
i guess it is impossible to answer
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 21:36 (seven years ago) link
Still go huh? when he says they're all getting stoned. I guess "drunk" doesn't have the same cadence to it, but it's such a weed word.
it never occurred to me that the businessmen weren't actually getting stoned! i assumed they were in a dark booth quietly passing a joint around. but, um, you may be right. your interpretation - that billy just liked the word better - makes more sense and is in character for our tonic-and-gin swilling songwriter.
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
honestly my earliest memory of this song is from a comic book: Dan Pussey "air piano"-ing to it in an early 90s issue of Dan Clowes "Eightball". I don't think I actually heard the song til a little later, at which point I found myself actively annoyed at the "slowly gets stoned" line.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link
I just want to post in this thread every photo in this link: http://www.popspotsnyc.com/billy_joel_piano_man/
― pplains, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:42 (seven years ago) link
excellent link!
― sleeve, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:47 (seven years ago) link
that is very cool!
― calstars, Friday, 28 July 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link
mum used to listen to her cassette of Greatest Hits vi & ii while she was baking or getting dinner ready & us kids would be playing in the living room - piano man & goodbye hollywood especially remind me of playing lego on a blanket in the living room
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 21:50 (seven years ago) link
Thank you for your valiant defense and evocative takes, Vegemitegrrl.
I think for me, this material was mostly greatest hits cassettes and bad boombox mix tapes grabbed from the radio circa ninth grade. I doubt I heard these albums in full till much later.
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 22:14 (seven years ago) link
Listening to 'Piano Man' for the first time on headphones. I never noticed the mandolin before!
― ArchCarrier, Friday, 28 July 2017 22:18 (seven years ago) link
Maybe Paul the real estate novelist writes books like this
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51s8GjGTdyL._SX311_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41PFv26dxmL._SX311_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 22:34 (seven years ago) link
but this is my favorite
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41szxseGdmL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 22:36 (seven years ago) link
The Romance of Real Estate
"Good real estate novelists drive us out to parts of town we've never seen before."
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 July 2017 22:49 (seven years ago) link
Disclosure: I am a professional writer with a degree in English literature. My particular specialty was, and is, 20th century novels.
I have no problem believing there are, or have been, actual "real estate novelists" working in the years 1990-2017.
Not sure I believe there was such a thing in 1970-73. Sorry.
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 23:11 (seven years ago) link
cant we dream
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 23:15 (seven years ago) link
hey now hey now
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 July 2017 23:22 (seven years ago) link
Richard Ford is a real-estate novelist.
― Eazy, Friday, 28 July 2017 23:30 (seven years ago) link
did HE have time for a wife i wonder?
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 23:48 (seven years ago) link
can't paul dream
― fact checking cuz, Friday, 28 July 2017 23:55 (seven years ago) link
lets spare a thought for navy davy tho
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 July 2017 23:57 (seven years ago) link
give a moment or two to the navy dave man
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 29 July 2017 00:17 (seven years ago) link
― Eazy, Friday, July 28, 2017 6:30 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
See my link upthread!
― pplains, Saturday, 29 July 2017 00:33 (seven years ago) link
I'm not surprised anyone would hate this song. Not only has it been massively overplayed, but it has the same problems as "American Pie" - designed as a sing along, and it's quite long. You've heard the melody a hundred times after just one listen. Yet I never got as sick of this song. Maybe I just heard it at the right age, but I think as far as Joel lyrics goes, it succeeds in painting a vivid picture, despite some clunker lines. I can still sing along and enjoy it in the right mood. "American Pie" can fuck off though
― Vinnie, Saturday, 29 July 2017 01:41 (seven years ago) link
It's twelve o'clock, Tuesday afternoonA happy couple enters the bar,There's an old man sitting next to mePeeling labels off his bottles of Bud...
― pplains, Saturday, 29 July 2017 02:17 (seven years ago) link
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, July 28, 2017
Louis Auchincloss?
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 29 July 2017 02:29 (seven years ago) link
Yeah god American Pie is like 45 minutes long - any self-respecting Buddy Holly fan would have made a song honoring his death a thousand times more succinct
I went camping over 4th of July and the campground was very 'activities-based' and held a karaoke event. I watched this poor old fool get up and do American Pie probably just thinking hey I like this song I never hear it no more but after the 79th verse he was practically blinking 'help me' in morse code it was brutal
poor dude was a least 4 bars off the whole way through too lol
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 29 July 2017 02:58 (seven years ago) link
lol at the 'help me' bit
― ArchCarrier, Saturday, 29 July 2017 07:12 (seven years ago) link
re: Paul Simon: https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=31830re: "stoned" as "drunk" - this is an older usage, right? feel like I've heard it in very square comedy or movies from the early 60s and clearly referring to, yeah, businessmen on their third martinis. if so it would date the song dramatically except that the weed usage had already half-supplanted it and today is presumably what 99% of listeners assume is going on. the surreptitious joint in the corner booth just about works, though it does change the kind of bar that a guy walks into. pplains's link to popspots helps me reconcile that to some degree. if that's the same site I've been to before, they also locate the "streetlife serenade" cover. fabulous work.and yeah, "all I wanna do" is pretty clearly in this song's debt. doesn't hurt it none!
― ﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 29 July 2017 13:53 (seven years ago) link
Meanwhile, it's time for our next track - but if you're inclined to keep the Piano Man discussion rolling, well, It Ain't No Crime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWS5xUF1nlA
This is a slightly more obscure track and there's not much to add here. This 1978 performance on The Old Grey Whistle Test shows how the fully-formed Billy Joel Band tackled it. Almost no online discussion of the song exists, save the every-Billy-Joel-song blog One Final Serenade which I really should have linked already, especially as I've linked to a couple of the images collected by the author. Mea culpa.
― ﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 29 July 2017 14:11 (seven years ago) link
Except for the backing vocals, which sound like they're out of a Leon Russell record, the fullthroated singing and piano boogie could've been from an Elton single.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 29 July 2017 14:45 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, this could have come straight off of Tumbleweed Connection.
― the general theme of STUFF (cryptosicko), Saturday, 29 July 2017 15:21 (seven years ago) link
The boogie could also be from a Leon Russell record - I could see this wandering into "Shootout on the Plantation" without much effort. Long John Baldry comes to mind again. Joel's vocal here, and especially in the live version, take him into a zone that I never really like from him, where he's trying to get all husky and barky and soulful. "Easy Money" is the nadir for me.
The song's fine, I guess? It's interesting in that it's basically the same setup as "Big Shot," speaking in the second-person to someone who partied a little too hard last night - but there he's full of venom and judgement, and sounds very comfortable being an asshole, while here it ain't no crime and he sounds a little forced trying to embrace the revelry. "I've Loved These Days," in the first person and mixing celebration with a sense of emptiness and futility, also works better imho.
― ﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 29 July 2017 16:06 (seven years ago) link
this is very cute if sort of undistinguished
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Saturday, 29 July 2017 16:38 (seven years ago) link
elton leon joe cocker a bit of all of that. more than a bit. billy used to do a good joe cocker impression. during the instrumental bits with the sax i feel like i'm listening to the saturday night live band play us out of a commercial break. good early '70s album filler. rod stewart could've done justice to this one.
― fact checking cuz, Saturday, 29 July 2017 17:54 (seven years ago) link
Wow, SNL band is harsh but fair FCC.
"Only Human" is another lyrical descendent of "Ain't No Crime," imo.
― okapi paste (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 29 July 2017 20:02 (seven years ago) link
My interpretation of the businessmen slowly get stoned is that they are periodically going out to the alley behind the bar and burning a J, thus slowly getting more stoned throughout the evening
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 30 July 2017 00:28 (seven years ago) link
Woah this Ain't No Crime REALLY doesn't seem like a Billy Joel song, I don't like him trying to be all funky
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 30 July 2017 00:31 (seven years ago) link
maybe they are bumming their tokes off paul simon
― ﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 30 July 2017 00:59 (seven years ago) link
"Big Shot" comparison is accurate - even that bass riff in the chorus is Big Shotty.
Not a huge fan of this voice either. I haven't decided if I'm going to take a day off from this thread or not for the day we hit "Everybody Has a Dream".
I mean, it's one thing to fudge all the details and play faux western on Billy the Kid, but this boogie woogie stuff just doesn't ring true for me. And I love this man, you all know this.
TL;DR - Had I been his dad, I too would've slapped the shit out of him had I heard him trying this on Beethoven.
― pplains, Sunday, 30 July 2017 01:39 (seven years ago) link
oh god i got 30 seconds in and had to stop to gather my rage into an incandescent pyre
MAWNINOWN THE FLAWWAWKIN OWT THA DAW
wtf is this deeply shity embarrassing bad dr john impersonator voice you are doing dude
i want to slam the cover down on his hands & make him stop
ugh that was gross
i need a silkwood shower
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 30 July 2017 01:53 (seven years ago) link