IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

plus the cynicism & wry humor is definitely what i regard as Billy's wheelhouse & this is kinda his rosetta stone for *that* particular tone imo, much more so than Piano Man which is v lightweight comparitively

ha, had the same experience with the GHVI&II cassette, and coming to this as a later-in-life song. but man talk about things that would have gone over my head as a kid. i wonder if my parents would have even let the tape pass as a continuous soundtrack if this was in there!

yeah idk if mum would have approved of captain jack getting you high tonight

as a kid i woud have liked the picking yr nose line tho

The song entered the news again in 2000 when it was mistakenly used during Hillary Clinton's announcement that she would be campaigning for U.S. Senate. According to an NPR report on worst campaign songs, a staffer notes that the playing of "Captain Jack" was a mistake. It was played from the Billy Joel compilation CD Greatest Hits Volume 1, and the song intended to be played was "New York State of Mind", which was track five on the CD.[23] The Clinton staffer inadvertently played track two, which was "Captain Jack".[23] Her presumed opponent, Rudolph Giuliani, who ended up not running for the Senate, criticized the song's use because of its alleged glorification of drugs. Giuliani even read the lyrics to the song in a live press conference.[23] Joel replied in a statement, "There are a lot of important issues facing the voters in this Senate race. Is a politician's interpretation of a song I wrote nearly 30 years ago an issue to the voters of New York state? I do not think so."[24]

loool

Staffer was probably like "pffft i love i Hil but imo fuck New York State of Mind let's get this party fkn STARTED"

some folks like to get away, take a holiday from the neighborhood
hop a flight to miami beach or to hollywood
but you just sit and home and masturbate
you're in a new york state of mind

(pretty much works, imo)

Pointless anecdote: some time ago, a friend of mine, X, called a radio station to request the 10,000 Maniacs song "Trouble Me," which is side 1, track 4 of the album Blind Man's Zoo.

More to the point, she asked to send it out as a dedication (remember those?) to a friend of hers, Z, who was going through a rough time. According to my friend, the radio station instead played the 10,000 Maniacs song "Eat for Two," which is side 1, track 1 of the album Blind Man's Zoo.

This was in a small and insular enough town that apparently, for weeks thereafter, people came up to Z saying "So, I hear you're pregnant."

"Captain Jack" is a weird song to get his career started. I mean, yes, catchy tune, but he also pronounces the word "masturbate" as elegantly as I've ever heard it

Not a bad album overall, huge improvement over the debut

Listening to the studio Captain Jack for the first time in a while - maybe the first time ever? It's a good performance and a wonderfully lush early 70s recording. Sounds great in headphones, even if a lot of the added details (all that organ!) don't necessarily benefit the song. The Songs in the Attic version, lived in for a few years and a little bit drunker and looser, just feels right to me.

Musically it's reminding me for the first time of "Levon" and there are enough similarities there that I almost wonder if Joel conceived of this as in some part an American answer to that, or a grim sequel: the merchant's dreamy-eyed son, now grown to young manhood and an empty shell, sailing on heroin instead of balloons to Venus. Anyway, a comparison between the two would capture a lot of the differences between Joel's and Taupin's lyrical sensibilities... and especially the influence of Dylan's "you're so dumb" mode. Of course, the emptiness and ugliness of the coming-of-age narrative are very much of the period (see: Last Picture Show, Midnight Cowboy); "there ain't no place to go anyway," and the casual availability of drugs that don't offer anything worthwhile are particularly post-60s. Like what do you do after the end of Easy Rider, especially if you never had much shot of being Captain America in the first place?

The most interesting moments are the ones where Joel isn't actively sneering at his subject, or where there's at least some ambiguity or space to get a glimpse of actual real life people Joel knew and was maybe even friends with. I like "and you guess you won't be going back to school, anymore" for not completely spelling out the logic: is he now trapped at home taking over the family business? Realizing he hated school and was only there under parental pressure? Is he about to have some kind of epiphany, or just fall into a stupor under the pernicious influence of the Captain? For me at least this is all more compelling than the "hey, check out this loser here" stuff.

Hearing this song makes me think about what Lou Reed must've thought of this guy. This Hicksville motherfucker talking about staring "at the junkies and the closet queens." The fuck does he know about the life? Did he learn that one in the Executive Room?

Or did he respect him as a songwriter, knowing that hey, he might not be as rock and roll as the rest of us, but he's got chops. Can't hate a Long Island boy for getting by, someone's gotta lead that front.

Can't find any quotes from Lou about Bill, but I did find this photo of those two, with Paul Simon and Bruce Springsteen in between, backing up Dion at MSG.

http://i.imgur.com/yzlQe9b.jpg

After another listen, I think what's really key in the SitA version is the added emphasis on the little PUSH! - there's a glee in Joel's delivery that rides the line between joining the protagonist in his release, and standing behind him, shoving him off a cliff. The raucous treatment of the chorus also takes us along for the ride of the high... it's a different revelry, with a bleaker backdrop, than the one that produced the various other hangovers on this record, but Joel still sells it as the good time the character is seeking. The presence of the crowd, if you can set aside eyerolls at the cheers for "pot," "high," "masturbate" etc., also helps.

I dunno about Lou Reed but I suddenly wonder if Bono ever listened to Billy Joel. There's some overlap in the swing-for-the-bleachers singing and the desire to produce crowd-pleasing anthems.

heh that Clinton staffer story is very Veep

i def owned and religiously listened to the first billy joel greatest hits collection and yet i remember nothing about "captain jack," which is p great

Which version of the comp did you have? (It wasn't on the cassette and LP releases.)

yeah i got the cassette version (1st cassette i ever owned!) when it came out in '85 and CJ was definitely not present. don't think i heard it until years later on late night classic rock radio

it didn't have Italian Restaurant or She's Got a Way, either

oh i guess that's why! i had the cassette

"Captain Jack" isn't entirely successful, but he's trying, and the melody's attractive. I don't think he understands his characters so much as wants points for noting they exist. It made my Joel best-of last month.

don't think I've ever heard this song before. weird how the verse barely has a melody at all, just this monotone delivery (which is v Lou Reed lol)

Hearing this song makes me think about what Lou Reed must've thought of this guy. This Hicksville motherfucker talking about staring "at the junkies and the closet queens." The fuck does he know about the life? Did he learn that one in the Executive Room?

Or did he respect him as a songwriter, knowing that hey, he might not be as rock and roll as the rest of us, but he's got chops. Can't hate a Long Island boy for getting by, someone's gotta lead that front.

this is an interesting question! Lou was often publicly contrarian in his tastes, I can see the latter being more likely esp given the shared Long Island heritage. I feel like when Lou went after other musicians in public it tended to be people who had personally spurned him (or that Lou had ditched)

Yeah love Captain Jack, def an oddball tune

"somewhere down the line" is pretty ok...

Piano Man the album definitely has an old school vinyl sequencing, coming out hard with an uptempo number, big hit either 2nd or 3rd, ending side 1 with a good one....Opening side 2 with a "rocker" (in relative Billy Joel terms, burying some clunkers at the middle of side 2, then ending strong with another big tune

Sounds great in headphones, even if a lot of the added details (all that organ!)

never noticed that during the chorus, is cool!

also back to the point of session guys & songwriting, Captain Jack has a perfect example of something that session dudes have often been screwed out of, here that massive sounding "dun-dundundun-duuuun-duuuuun-dun" guitar riff that goes underneath the chorus...so great, and that's the type of little touches that often wrecking crew type players would just start playing and do during the session, but the way songwriting has always works it's like the chord changes and lyrics and vocal melodies are "songwriting"

OTM, I was paying attention to that chorus guitar part during my listening earlier and it is key imho.

I'd nominate Doctor Casino for Best Music Writing 2017 (if that was still a thing) on the basis of his contributions to this thread if I could. Notably, this:

The most interesting moments are the ones where Joel isn't actively sneering at his subject, or where there's at least some ambiguity or space to get a glimpse of actual real life people Joel knew and was maybe even friends with. I like "and you guess you won't be going back to school, anymore" for not completely spelling out the logic: is he now trapped at home taking over the family business? Realizing he hated school and was only there under parental pressure? Is he about to have some kind of epiphany, or just fall into a stupor under the pernicious influence of the Captain? For me at least this is all more compelling than the "hey, check out this loser here" stuff.

Yes, yes and yes! I hear no condescension here, but rather a lived-in empathy. True, the song is notable (particularly for those coming to it after knowing Billy's later work) for the ugliness of its subject matter--I hear it as a suburbanized take on a Lou Reed anthem or an R. Crumb sketch--but it deserves more credit for being vividly drawn and beautifully paced: I love the way that the guitar revs up each time the chorus hits. I used to think the carnival flourishes were a bit much, but even they've grown on me.

Oh, and I also first encountered this song via the CD pressing of GH, which my parents had owned on cassette when I was a kid and which had a frequent home in my dad's car during family trips. I got a CD for myself when I was about 15 and, not even paying attention to the different track listing when I first played it, I was a definitely shocked when "Piano Man" led into "Captain Jack," first by the surprise of *not* hearing "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" next, and then by the rather scuzzy tale that unfurled (this was probably a year or so before Green Day's breakthrough, so "Darling Nikki" aside, hearing the word "masturbate" in a song was still novel).

Anyway, I love this song. Screw "Piano Man;" "Captain Jack" is Billy's first classic.

Hearing this song makes me think about what Lou Reed must've thought of this guy. This Hicksville motherfucker talking about staring "at the junkies and the closet queens." The fuck does he know about the life? Did he learn that one in the Executive Room?

i'd hope lou would be smart enough to realize this song isn't about junkies and closet queens. it's a vivid portrait of suburban ennui, which this hicksville motherfucker knows about because he's a hicksville motherfucker. it's a theme he'll come back to repeatedly. and as a suburban motherfucker myself, this song resonated deeply when i was growing up, even if i didn't recognize the exact characters and even if i wouldn't have recognized heroin if someone had put it in a needle and stuck it in my arm.

(side note on billy and lou: not a clue what either of them knew about the other, but they had a shared, unabashed love of doo-wop. the photo of them with dion above is both of them in their element. i'd imagine lou might appreciate billy circa "an innocent man." or maybe he thought he's a suburban pop motherfucker with nothing to offer, i don't know.)

for a monotone-ish song, there's a lot of cool musical detail here. i love the major 7ths, with occasional substitutions that keep things dark and surprising. the piano runs in the middle of each verse are the beginnings of another billy template that he'd come back to again and again. the buildups to the chorus somehow manage to sound big and new every time.

maybe his first great vocal performance, too.

I'd nominate Doctor Casino for Best Music Writing 2017

seconded

thirded

awwww you all are too fabulous and far too kind but thank you :D

and yeah it seems like the point of that line is that the main character of the song, not the narrator, is the tourist in the village, and this is just another of his many failings. an easy posture for a songwriter to take on but at least it leaves room for a reading where the "junkies and the closet queens" have much more complete lives outside of the frame, and the songwriter is inviting us to go "look at this bozo who just shows up and stares at them for kicks" or "look at this bozo who exoticizes junkies and drag queens while refusing to recognize that he himself is on smack and keeps changing outfits and performing identities through the course of the song." of course this also leads us into lost in translation territory, where the Other exists solely to remind us of How Empty Middle America Is Inside, That They Don't Feel Anything Even In Response To X and Y. but without extending joel undue credit as some kind of ahead-of-his-time progressive on tolerance and inclusion (because, no), it does seem important that it's the voyeur and cultural tourist whose "world is so dead."

otm

it's driving me crazy but i could have sworn that i read somewhere after he died that Lou Reed either liked or hated or ~had an opinion~ on Billy Joel, something to do with his nostalgic doo-wop stuff but all major details are escaping me

but gaaaah do you think i can find it

rah

maybe i dreamed it idk

sorry, totally pointless post, as u were

I remember reading an inter where Lou said he loved "The Longest Time" and wished Billy would go a little further in that direction.

This thread has inspired me to start plowing through Billy's discography. I was able to get ahold of the original version of Cold Spring Harbor though rather questionable means. It's honestly not that bad! I expected Alvin and the Chipmunks vocals a la Ween's "Don't Laugh I Love You." Only in the "she's got a-WAYYYY" does it really show.

I remember reading an inter where Lou said he loved "The Longest Time" and wished Billy would go a little further in that direction.

If it's not a true opinion, it's an excellent form of Lou trolling.

Would have been a much better direction than the one Billy actually took imho. But we'll get there...

I like the 1973 record Billy released in 1973. Dig the 1978 one and the 1980 one too.

But if he had switched it up and released a 1962 record in 1983 followed by a 1955 record in 1985, I dunno. My enthusiasm would've waned much more than it did.

But we'll get there...

I remember reading an inter where Lou said he loved "The Longest Time" and wished Billy would go a little further in that direction.

If it's not a true opinion, it's an excellent form of Lou trolling.

― pplains, Tuesday, August 8, 2017 8:15 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd expect it was real, one of the things Lou had undying affection for was 50s doo-wop and Brill Building rock n roll stuff. There's that famous bootleg where he hosts a community radio show for a couple hours and some goomba calls in and they tawk about how great old time rock n roll is

So you go to the Village in your tie-dye jeans

Always a fan of Billy Joel's specific clothing descriptions (later in "Still Rock 'n' Roll to Me" and "Keeping The Faith"),

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/be/7f/6fbe7fe71984ab1c86f8865a784b714f.jpg

https://cdn.smehost.net/billyjoelcom-uslegacyprod/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/140509_birthday_ad.jpg

Following a tour in support of Piano Man, Joel by his own account was a bit worn out and short on new material as he came into the studio in Spring 1974 to record the followup. Michael Stewart and Ron Malo were back as producer and engineer, respectively, and the number of session players climbed, with no fewer than eight guitarists and three bassists across the ten tracks of Streetlife Serenade. The album hit stores in October '74 and peaked at #35 on Billboard (#16 in Canada); despite having scored a moderate hit with the previous album, Joel seems to have been under-promoted, with only one single released. Maybe the label didn't smell a hit.

Today, it's probably his most obscure LP, excepting Cold Spring Harbor, since while Turnstiles did worse on the charts, it contained several more fan favorites. This one here tends to get relegated to the "rushed followup" or "failed experiment" bins (it was halfheartedly hawked as some kind of concept album) but I think there's some good and interesting material to be found! Significantly, it was in promoting this record that Joel absorbed a Long Island trio called Topper as the core of his touring band; they would remain so for the next decade, but more about them on the next album.

https://img.discogs.com/Rxr7GdUoMjJfFRwSQzPZE1osJk0=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1991423-1352031594-9157.jpeg.jpg

http://www.popspotsnyc.com/streetlife_serenade/billy-joel-streetlife-seranade_back.jpg

Per Wiki: The back cover has a portrait of a barefoot Joel sitting in a chair looking unhappy and Joel himself says that he had only recently had his wisdom teeth removed two days prior to the shoot.

The album opens with Streetlife Serenader; as always, the Songs in the Attic version (recorded in this case at the St. Paul Civic Center, 7/20/1980) is worth checking out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TNrs1434DA

This *sounds* like the intro to a 70s concept album, in that its kind of ponderous and more concerned with narrative than melody. I know of at least one song I like from this record (we'll get there, but--hint--it's the obvious one), so I'm gonna hope it gets better from here.

Streetlife Serenade is suuuuuuch and early Springsteen title, I'm almost surprised Billy got to it first

lotta empty space/piano digressions in this one but i like it. feels very ambitious even as it goes nowhere. extremely mccartney imo

Yeah, "ponderous" maybe sums this one up for me. I like each of the pieces and it's very prettily-recorded, but basically we've got five verses, each kicking off with one of two starting lines, alternating with big instrumental sections. Very much a curtain-raiser but it'd still be good to have more of a song there, and the attempts to pile on oomph make it kind of wearying. For the first time I'm a bit reminded of Ben Folds in 'concept' mode, though I don't think he'd ever give guitar solos the spotlight the way Joel does here. The McCartney comparison is interesting - Paul doesn't tend to try to make Statements as much, but certainly they're both drawn to the use of medleys of somewhat disconnected pieces.

The lyric is an interesting start... seems like he's continuing from "Piano Man" with the interest in musical performers and what they offer the society around them. Maybe he was trying to be more subtle and less literal in sketching this out, but for me it just ends up vague, what with there being no narrative and no specific characters. Some lines feel like red herrings - "Child of Eisenhower" in particular suggests we're getting a Portrait of a Generation (see Hall & Oates's War Babies, released eight days after this album), but that doesn't really go anywhere.

That second promo shot is just a little too close to McCartney for comfort:

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/paul_mccartney_let_it_be_album_cover_the_beatles_microphone.jpg

https://cdn.smehost.net/billyjoelcom-uslegacyprod/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/140509_birthday_ad.jpg

I really can't forgive titling a song Los Angelence

quality manspreading back cover photo tho

"I still am into doowop. When I can find it. I was amazed, we were in a restaurant the other day and they were playing this Billy Joel thing, where he does all the voices as acapella doowop, it was really good, I wish he’d do a lot more like that."

from: http://sylviesimmons.com/lou-reed/

I really can't forgive titling a song Los Angelence

ha. it's "los angelenos." and i can guarantee you that whatever he might have done with "los angelence," it would have been a much better song than "los angelenos."