IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

Segueing right into this from "The Stranger" was a smooth move.

i like the straightforwardness of the verses, even if in places they could maybe use just the eensiest bit more specificity. though i suspect its vagueness helped it - everyone can relate! but the bridge for me, though it works really well melodically, feels like kind of a non-sequitur. how did we get to "what will it take til you believe in me?" an undeveloped thread of the situation. has he fucked up and needs to win her trust? or she's just not sure about this guy? it seems like they've been together a while - it's not a "falling in love" song. i dunno it just doesn't seem to have much to do with loving someone just the way they are.

I should add that judging BJ for not being as good as Paul Simon (or Paul McCartney or Lou Reed or Frank Zappa or, heck, Charles Mingus) is a tough standard. In looking at these songs, I'm trying to look at their place within the Joelian oeuvre. Y'know, relative to his capabilities, relative to his style, relative to his general Billyness.

I don't think His Billyness would appreciate being slotted beneath those guys by default. Seeing as how a key part of Billyness is resenting not getting enough respect.

"What will it take til you believe in me the way that I believe in you" frames the sentiment of the rest of the song for me. If his somewhat passive aggressive list of her attributes feels dickish, perhaps it is because it is his retort to her constant criticisms of him. Still plenty dickish, perhaps, though it gets to a flaw at the heart of these kinds of songs in general--we don't hear her (unclever?) side of it-- but if the lyric is a series of retorts, we can sort of fill in the blanks.

I'll help his Billyness out: "Just the Way You Are" >>> any Paul Simon solo song.

This is prime Billy Joel Velveeta cheese and I love it, unreservedly. Gorgeous vocals, dreamy Fender Rhodes and that cocktail-bar beat ... this is the Charlie perfume of 70's ballads

Please enjoy the version he sang on Sesame Street to Oscar the Grouch (with Marlee Matlin!)
<3 <3
https://youtu.be/hHC3M7KL2ns

I think he would at least believe he's supposed to be there in the list with McCartney and dig the idea that he's cool enough to be there with Lou Reed. No idea what he's ever said about Paul Simon but I suspect he views it as a misreading of himself to be put there - okay sure I sing and I write songs but I'm not a singer-songwriter, I'm a COMPOSER and a ROCK-AND-ROLLER. I imagine that the "they had to drag this song kicking and screaming onto the album" narrative reflects this... the last thing he wanted to be seen as was the Muzak needle-drop from that Blues Brothers bit. The next three albums, and Songs in the Attic, in various ways can be read as efforts to get out from under the success of this song and the box it probably put him into with millions of listeners who'd never heard "Captain Jack" or whatever.

Also on the subject of resentments and postures, I find the "clever conversation" line a fascinating bit of common-man positioning. It wouldn't take much to spin a silent-majority narrative where Billy gave voice to all those baffled by the urbane and wordy pop culture proferred by Steely Dan, Neil Simon and Woody Allen. But then I think: I bet Billy Joel *loved* Annie Hall. New York Jew, bundle of resentments, adolescent comprehension of relationships, love/hate relationship with Los Angeles... it's right up his alley. Maybe he really doesn't like clever conversation, but he does see himself as half an artist, with the dual role as the entertainer sometimes fitting naturally and sometimes feeling like a ball and chain.

Billy gave voice to all those baffled by the urbane and wordy pop culture proferred by Steely Dan, Neil Simon and Woody Allen

reason #247 why it never ever ever occurred to me he was actually jewish,

stellar production of an intricate arrangement, it's pretty clear, three songs in, how much phil ramone brought to the table here. but billy has clearly upped his game, too. such a great melody and puffin is otm with it's among his top vocal performances in the history of ever.

the creepiest line for me is "i need to know that you will always be the same ol' someone that i knew," which turns the idea of "don't go changing..." from pillow talk to threat. the message now is "don't you dare go changing." which is all kinds of ewwwww.

yeah agreed. feels like it migrated in from a draft that was more like "i'm scared that becoming successful will change you, oh do say you won't forget the old neighborhood when you're up on top" ... not that i really want to hear that song either. "don't go changing to try and please me" is a nice idea, but only if it's at least implicitly paired with "of course if you change for your own reasons, that's totally fine and i support you."

""I Love You Just the Way You Are But If You Want to Change and Be Different I'll Still Love You Then Too" kinda long for a songtitle

of course this is also reminiscent of marriage vows (in good times, and in bad) where there's a promise that at least certain things are not supposed to change. an idea that ive always struggled with (tho in practice, functional marriages roll with the changes all the time!) and which most ppl probably find very sweet and relatable.

going back to Movin' Out, s/o to Phil Ramone for the very cool and subtle way he inches up the delay effect on the ack-ack-ack-acks gradually, almost a dub move

haha well I guess i'm groping towards a rewrite where the bridge is used to develop on this counter-theme, let billy's woman know that he's not trying to freeze her where she stands either. like idk:

Want you to know that I will always be
The same old someone you once knew
And when you grow and find your chance to fly
I always will believe in you

that's trite shlock and it needs punching-up but I feel like it'd develop the song more than suddenly swinging into hints of weird insecurities. but maybe i'm shortchanging the complex adult relationship stuff that I like in "the stranger."

I'll help his Billyness out: "Just the Way You Are" >>> any Paul Simon solo song.

― the general theme of STUFF (cryptosicko), Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:02 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man u talkin' reckless now

maybe i'm shortchanging the complex adult relationship stuff

this is valid, too. there's certainly a true-to-life complex adult relationship thing going on here. plus a hefty dose of creepiness. these things, obviously, not being mutually exclusive.

the i don't want clever conversation thing is soooooo PUA/negging

or at least "aren't these parties phony?"

despite my intense & undying love for the song, i will say that if i only focus on the lyrics i get super, duper IA

"dont go trying some new fashion
dont change the color of your hair"

ok i get maybe he means dont do that FOR him but still, i'll do what i want with my hair THANKS

"you always have my unspoken passion
although i might not seem to care"

what kind of consolation is that supposed to be. great, cool, thanks asshole. shit in one hand and wish in the other and see how long this marriage lasts. seriously fuck off with that. show your wife you love her! or eat tv dinners over the sink in the dark idk up to you

"i dont want clever conversation
i never want to work that hard
i just want someone that i can talk to"

yeah because with your unspoken passion & not seeming to care you must be super great to listen to. it's clever conversation or she is throwing bread rolls at you at the dinner table

"I need to know that you will always be
the same old someone that I knew"

his fear of change is annoying and unrealistic and fucking UNREASONABLE like ugh NO you dont get to know that, who would ever promise that

otm

eat tv dinners over the sink in the dark idk up to you

I lol'd

like he wants all this from her but he is giving her literally zero, just based on the song

"deep down i love you" means jack shit, buddy

"shit in one hand and wish in the other and see how long this marriage lasts. "

Weber and Joel married on September 5, 1973 and she became his manager. (...) Joel married his second wife, Christie Brinkley, aged 31 at the time, in March 1985.[87]  (...) On October 2, 2004, Joel married his third wife Katie Lee, aged 23 at the time.[91] At the time of the wedding, Joel was 55. (...) On July 4, 2015, Joel married his fourth wife, Alexis Roderick (aged 33 at the time), an equestrian and former Morgan Stanley executive, at his estate on Long Island with the Governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, presiding over the ceremony.[94]

yep

i saw a thing on the Wiki that Liberty used to sing the chorus as "She took the house, she took the car"

hee

Rhodes + sax invites the "Still Crazy" comparison; they're a similar tempo etc.

But really, both songs need to exist so I've never felt the need to compare them

the gathering synth fog in the background of "just the way you are" is a buckinghamesque detail. i don't know if i've ever heard it before today

i guess those are just semi-opaque backing vocals and not a synth but they add so much to the song

lol sorry i started typing before i read everyone talking about the washing backing vocal

I'm still voting mellotron

The guy aimed so often to write a Great American Songbook song, and here he pulled one of the few contemporary ones.

like he wants all this from her but he is giving her literally zero, just based on the song

"deep down i love you" means jack shit, buddy

See also "Always on my Mind" and "Goodbye Stranger" and "Angel of the Morning"...

Brad's memoir title will be Gathering Synth Fog

true

I think "Always on my Mind" and the like were discussed in this thread:

Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

"always on my mind" at least doesn't try to sugarcoat what a shitty partner his guy has been. while it does seem to be asking to you to buy that "you were always on my mind" is supposed to cancel this all out, you have the option of reading this as being intentionally lame and insufficient. when billy comes off as a dick he usually THINKS he comes off as either a great guy, or an otm deliverer of righteous put-downs.

Compare "Leaving on a Jet Plane," where the speaker indicates that even though he's cheated on her many times, it's okay because those were meaningless flings.

the contrasting song that keeps popping into my head is actually Paul Simon's "Tenderness" from "There Goes Rhymin' Simon" (1973) - which doesn't bear too much musical similarity (acoustic piano instead of fender rhodes, for ex.) and is also different lyrically in that it's not about how much of a dick the narrator has been but is instead about how he could tolerate his partner's harsh honesty if it was tempered with an underlying sympathy, the titular tenderness. This is like the inverse of the other songs listed so far, where it's the aggrieved partner saying "I could put up with a lot of shit from you if I could tell you actually cared", but it's not rendered with any particular bitterness or anger, it's more of a sad-sack "why can't we just get along" appeal.

which seems both more grown-up and less assholish portrayal of an actual adult relationship than the BJ song

I always through Billy Joel's 'Honesty' from the next album was an answer to Simon's 'Tenderness'.

Simon: "Just give me some tenderness/Beneath your honesty"
Joel: "If you search for tenderness/It isn't hard to find.....Honesty is such a lonely word"

I have a whole album to catch up on but gotta say that "Just the Way You Are" is a gorgeous production and melody. The muted sound of the Rhodes downplays the interesting chords. I feel like this song required restraint that some artists wouldn't have. Once again, I try to not pay too much attention to the lyrics tho

So we got through the day of "Just the Way You Are" without anyone mentioning Chuck Klosterman? I've gotten the feeling over the years that he is less than beloved on ILX, but his piece on Billy (and particularly the parts on today's song, though the piece is more focused on Glass Houses overall) is still essential reading for any Joel fan.

I don't think it's online, and if I weren't currently in a different city as my books, I'd scan and link it. Maybe I still will a couple of albums from now...

Also, I think it's interesting/appropriate that people are praising the melody/production/arrangement/singing no matter what their take on the lyrics. Can we say that "Just the Way You Are" is the textbook definition of "soft rock" in the best possible way?

it's not even really rock! it's just soft

LITE FM?

(Un)Easy Listening

thanks for tuning into KSMSH smooshy music for soft lovers

Crypto, I know the klosterman piece you mean but deliberately haven't looked at it in the course of this discussion.

Speaking strictly for me, one could go on for ages about the lyrics. I know I have. and klosterman does. Rn I personally don't have a lot that is new or interesting to say, so it's refreshing to just be thinkin baout the tone of the sax or what Liberty is doing.

yeah i could live wo klosterman itt