IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wccRif2DaGs

Vienna opens side two with another fan favorite (though this is one of my token "never done much for me" numbers). I suspect its high profile stems at least in part to its being the B-side to "She's Always A Woman." In recent years - perhaps aided by its use in 13 Going On 30 - it's had a minor renaissance with covers by Mac Miller and Ariana Grande.

Yeah, this one always was, and remains for me, a big pile of meh. As for its "fan favourite" status, I can only imagine that it's coasting on the momentum of the rest of The Stranger (which is otherwise killer for at least the first 2/3 of the album).

i like this song a lot (maybe bc of its use in 13 going on 30) but i can understand why people think there's not much to it (there isn't)

Thanks to One Final Serenade, I discovered this fan film with a lot of nicely-shot Mumbai street footage, which suggests to me that this is a song that maybe means less to aging hipsters like me and Billy, and more to young folks needing the reminder that it's okay to slow down. Which is who Billy was trying to reach in the song I guess, so it's cool that people still find it and relate to it.

The choice of Vienna as locale is apparently based on the fact that that's where Billy's dad was from, and where he moved after splitting from his mom. According to the oft-told lore, Billy was visiting him and noticed an old woman sweeping the sidewalk; a chat with Dad about this sparked a realization that pop culture overemphasizes the youth years and throws away all the rest of a lifetime. Similar impulse as all the old-folks stuff on Simon & Garfunkel's Bookends, though that's more awkwardly "young poet tries to grapple with the idea that he will someday be old." Anyway I really dig it as a basis for a song, I just get a little bored by the ballad-by-numbers vibe and the little "see, it's European!" accents with the accordion.

(btw, since I suspect much of the USA ilxor contingent is taking advantage of the long weekend, imma hold off on the next song until Tuesday)

ILM waits for you.

Aw, tomorrow being Sunday was going to be perfect for the next one.

This is the first time I've heard this and I gotta say I really love it.

His voice is beautiful here, so bright! And I love the lyrics & the melody. Home-run for me. Easy. I'm not even mad at the accordion-flair.

feelin you today, veg - brenda rinetti earworm has been in full effect for like twelve hours.

key as always is the verse-ending line. SUUURE that BRENDA RINETTI would ALways know HOW to surVIVE. what a fantastic hook. really can't overstate how much stronger the hook-making is on turnstiles and this album than on streetlife and even the better half of piano man. I can admit there are still structural weaknesses here and there, but the earworminess and quantity of the hooks... he'd flowered. though I still want to believe the band is playing a role here.

http://images.45cat.com/billy-joel-only-the-good-die-young-cbs-2.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crif5E67ar0

Only The Good Die Young, not to be confused with the Iron Maiden song of the same name, was the third single off of The Stranger, backed with "Get It Right The First Time." It had the weakest performance from the LP, peaking at #24 on the Hot 100 - still one slot higher than "Piano Man" so I'm sure no one was complaining. A #18 in Canada was its best performance overall. It may have gotten a small boost from Joel's SNL performance (when supposedly, Billy had been asked not to perform it and had even rehearsed another song to fake Lorne Michaels out). It's a nice enough performance of the song - nevermind the weird website hosting the video - but mainly, you get to see Richie Cannata jumping up from the organ to play the sax solo. Love it.

Per Wiki, Attempts to censor the song only made it more popular, after religious groups considered it anti-Catholic,[3] and pressured radio stations to remove it from their playlists,[2] which Billy plausibly claims was a sales boon. Whether anyone pointed out the larger problem of it being a song about a guy relentlessly pursuing sex with a young woman is unclear. It never bothered me as a kid because it was hooky as hell, and I was both an oblivious cis dude and a pre-teen who didn't even really register the plot. It kinda leaps out at me now. There are probably more charitable readings - here's Melissa Etheridge covering it, with an introduction that asserts that "back in high school, this was a very definite emotion of mine." And of course, for all we know, Virginia (named for a real Virginia that Joel knew in high school) could be totally into it - or rolling her eyes at his desperate attempts to convince her that he spends his nights running "with a dangerous crowd," rather than getting picked up from piano lessons by his mom.

If you're looking for a different angle - or you're one of this thread's many devoted fans of "All You Wanna Do Is Dance," then you simply must check out this early, reggae-styled take, including brief mid-song commentary from Billy. Kind of an amazing document of how much these things grow in the studio - apart from the huge style shift, several of the most compelling features of the song just aren't there yet. Reportedly, Liberty DeVitto axed the whole approach, telling Billy something to the effect of "the closest you've been to Jamaica is the Jamaica Avenue BMT." The released version is take three.

https://img.discogs.com/uBkVooUblj7r1Yb2Y71XvYIcNMo=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8912552-1471333418-2661.jpeg.jpg

I love the exuberant horn action on this track, totally life-affirming

then you simply must check out this early, reggae-styled take

weirdly unsurprised, as i was focusing on devitto's drums this listen and thought "huh, if the beat shifted and slowed a little this would be a reggae jam"

This is my #1 all time favorite Billy Joel song

It's a kick off your shoes & dance in your socks expression of exuberant...well, lust... and I am 100% ok with it, especially since it leans heavily on the youthful aspect & isnt read as a thirty year old trying to get a highschooler to give it up

the joyfulnesd gives me a Four Seasons vibe idk why really, just a feeling more than any musical connotation

i'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with thr saints
the sinners are much more fun

also it is absolutely PACKED with great lyrics and turns of phrase. and then the freshness of the song and the arrangement come off in the performance, the delivery of those lines has this great youthful vivacity. "youuuu mightve heard i RUN with a DANgerous kuhROWD" - love it. secret highlight: towards the end, the "oh-HOO-ooo-OOOOO" followed by the variation on the delivery, "only the good DIIIIIIE young" - this guy is really working up some passion about this whole thing! this too is probably crucial to the lyrical conceit working at all - the guy is using every lame wheedling ploy in the book and it's obnoxious but at least he's not doing so purposefully. like he didn't get this out of a pick-up-artist manual or advice from older kids, he's just sincerely inventing on the spot, out of horny desperation, the oldest set of lines in the book.

i think as a kid i just loved it as a song about, like, someone living in a gray sad world repressed by evil elders, but a rescue is on the way! i also didn't know any catholics (that i knew of) so the reference to a rosary went right over my head if i even registered that as being the words. later i read it more like this guy really was a super cool badass guy (see also the self-destructive window-smashing biker in "you may be right"), too old for this girl and justifying all the complaints registered against him by the girl's mother and the church at large. now though he just seems like a kinda pimply kid, laughing a bit too loud, wishing to god he was one of those bad dangerous crowd guys who get all the girls. he rehearses his speech in the mirror, applying old spice and combing his hair in a pompadour, like the rest of the romeos wore.

first paragraph there was meant to wrap up with reference to the joyfulness that Veg identifies. key to the whole thing. without that it's just another Me Boy, Me Want You, Girl type song. as an indicator of how horribly wrong this can all go, see the turgid, joyless and invention-free "Hot Blooded" (recorded while this was on the charts, in fact).

got some catching up to do.

scenes from an italian restaurant - i love this unreservedly. longform without a wasted moment (in all senses of the word wasted). this is like a shangri-la's single blown out to seven and a half minutes, with overture, place-setting, story and reprise of overture seamlessly wound together with no scaramouches, no fandangos, no wayward sons, no flute solos, no phil rizzuto. okay, it's not *that* great. but still. i do think the flow is kinda flawless. the only thing that sounds out of place to me is billy shouting "yeah rock and roll" immediately after informing us that b & e are broke, fighting and crying. what's with that?

individual pieces, ranked:

1. bottle of red
2. the pounding piano run betw "my sweet romantic rights" and "brenda and eddie"
3. things are ok
4. brenda & eddie

and i like brenda & eddie a lot.

vienna - always liked this one a lot, too. something about the melody sounds very elton johnny circa "harmony," and something else about it, which i can't quite put my finger on, makes it sound more like a "52nd street" than a "stranger" song to me. and i think it's absolutely lovely.

only the good die young - reason #764 why it never ever ever ever occurred to me, a jew, that billy was jewish. no way a jewish dude writes this song. jewish kids from long island are not running with dangerous crowds, pretending they have a shot with unattainable catholic girls or displaying a working knowledge of catholic schools and churches. they might well love this song though. i did. they just wouldn't know how to write it. and that would in fact be part of its appeal.

the two syllable pronunciation of "well" in "i might as weh-well be the one" is great.

liberty's drum intro is weird and cool.

how many thousands of kids noted in their high school yearbooks in the late '70s that they'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints?

I can confirm that it was still a viable yearbook sentiment in 1989, cuz.

I used to dislike it; now I can hear the craft.

The most 80s song on this album. I hear hints of "Don't Ask Me Why" along with all sorts of snippets from An Innocent Man. I dig the shuffle. Even the brass sounds modern, in that "Golden (wha-wha-wha) Years" sort of way.

liberty's drum intro is weird and cool. - Agreed.

I don't take this narrator and the one from "Hot Blooded" from the same school at all. If anything, you could paint him as a "yeah, I could be getting laid, but The Church keeps cock-blocking me." Because, come on. What Catholic girl doesn't give it up? Just maybe not to this guy. "Oooo, you run with a Dangerous crowd. And where might those boys be hanging out tonight?"

Read somewhere that WMJ got death threats in St. Louis, warning him not to play this song. So he played it TWICE.

haha I just dislike foreigner and wanted a foil for billy's verbal energy and the band's cleverness here

That Foreigner song does represent a lot more about what's wrong with rock and roll instead of what's right.

Billy naming the object of desire "Virginia" instead of Maria or Patricia does walk the fine line between stupid and clever though.

well, there was a real Virginia, supposedly. also reminds me of "yes virginia, there is a santa claus." an almost folkloric convention: addressing a girl in the second person? consider "virginia!"

I know a Virginia who went by Ginger for many years partly to get away from people who sang this at her.

understandable. though i think Train may have committed the greater sin in this category.

Train is the greater sin, full stop. In every category.

sadly i think "drops of jupiter" might actually be their attempt at a billy joel song. tho probably u2 is their more direct reference point for big anthemic garbage. anyway though they have no place polluting this thread and i apologize for even bringing them up.

This is pretty good. I've never really thought about/listened to the lyrics before. It sounds very much like a Dion & the Belmonts tribute to my ears, especially with a lot of the doo-wop-ish asides and accents in the vocal.

Yeah, the "wo wo wo" bit in particular is a really nicely integrated doo-wop element that feels totally natural in this very different sound, and a little foretaste of An Innocent Man.

that little shuffle-skip devitto does after the piano intro before the song kicks in = my favorite thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx3QmqV2pHg

She's Always A Woman is another Elizabeth song, apparently meant to be complimentary, with regard to her negotiating savvy as his manager. Released as the album's final single, it peaked at #17 on the Hot 100, and got to #2 on the Easy Listening chart. I'm not sure what beat it out there, since I'm not sure when it peaked, but the odds favor England Dan & John Ford Coley. Lynda Carter's cover seems sadly to have done little to get her singing career off the ground, though it's a remarkable period piece, sonically.

Love the way his voice sounds so light & dreamy in this

I have a real soft spot for it. I do catch the admiration in the lyrics & delivery though over time it sounds condescending esp in light of his general tone in later years it's hard not to hear it as sarcastic

clearly this time of night i do away with most forms of punctuation so make of the above what you will :/

Maybe I've got too much "Just Like A Woman" on the mind, but this morning, this song is screaming Dylan at me.

Wonder if Henley heard this in the shadows and thought, "YES. 'HIDES LIKE A CHILD.' THIS BOY'S NAILED IT."

All that said, it is a pretty song. It's probably in the Top 20 songs of "Aren't You Listening To These Lyrics?", where prom dances end with "Wonderful Tonight" and fathers dance with their newly married daughters to "Just Like A Woman".

I think when Billy's trying to be sarcastic it's more obvious - this one to me feels like it belongs in the "singer comes off as a dick" thread. Beautiful music though, the melody is effortlessly pretty. the key change in the second part of the bridge (the higher "ohhhhh") gives me tingles sometimes

this is the official anthem of every long island wedding

I really have so little to say about this one! Some great melody stuff (mainly the move to the title line, the "she steals like a thief" bit - that's great), but the entire premise feels incredibly dated for obvious reasons surrounding the painful generalizations. Like whether or not it's misogynistic, it has the same problem as "She's A Woman" or "American Girl" where it's like the big payoff is that she, get this... is a woman. Well, the American adult female population in 1977 was around eighty million people so that really doesn't narrow things down very much. Anything we're supposed to infer based on this is essentialist baggage we're bringing in from outside the song - ah, yes, a woman, I sure know what THAT implies about this person and this relationship. Barf.

I do think Dylan's is way worse, but at least it has "Nobody feels any pain" opening things out with something so seemingly strange and off-topic that I'm always prepared to give it another chance, aha, this time it will turn out to be an interesting song. (It never is.)

i like how after the discrete chords of the first verse billy starts doing these very nice chromatic figures that kinda make the song feel centerless in a good way

Are they chromatic? I always thought they were just arpeggios. ("Just" very tasty ones.)

lmao i don't know anything about scales and briefly confused two concepts i learned 100 years ago when i was trying to learn the piano, yeah they're just arpeggios

They are great though. Didn't mean to turn this into Theory 101 class, sorry.

Anyway I think this is one of his most McCartneyan vocals. The "oh, and she never gives out" bit, with the oboe noodling in the background? That would have fit fine on Abbey Road or Let It Be (though Paul would never have been able to play a piano part like this).

Then, as if to provide an antidote to the sweetness, he thickens up the Lawn Guyland in the last verse - "suddenly cruel," "nobody's fool" sound like he's wearing a boxing mouthguard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccdC_EPih2E

Get It Right The First Time leads us into the home stretch of the album. I always forget about this one.

she's always a woman - beautiful medley. the "she takes care of herself" part is one of his best paul mccartney/emitt rhodes moments. the tone of the lyric is confusing to me. i honestly can't tell if he's trying to be sweet, trying to be a dick, trying to remember what bob dylan said, or what.

get it right the first time - sounds like an early, lesser pass at "tell her about it." the la la la part is very stevie wonder. i, too, hardly remember this one. i can imagine it being a fun live jam.

*beautiful medley* is my way of saying *beautiful melody.*

I was dreading today's, but it wasn't that bad! Maybe my memories are colored by its proximity to... tomorrow's little ditty.

I like the rough voice he's got here. He's an excellent singer, with a few limited tricks in his bag, but this one just sounds like him sangin' away. Reminds me of "Josie", where Fagan slips down a little from his leather upholstered sidewing stool to exclaim "When Josie comes HOME! TONIGHT."

Nothing on Who Sampled Who for this one! I figured for sure someone would've used this. It's got that groove. The bass is in an odd signature. Maybe not a hip-hop artist, but surely some Daft Punk wannabe would've liked this one.

Because who doesn't like a nice breezy samba?

Quickly catching up...

"Only the Good Die Young" - If not a perfect song, than definitely a perfect Billy Joel song--witty and gently subversive lyrics (I love the fairy tale-ish detail of "they built you a temple and locked you away"), a muscular and diverse arrangement, hooks for days.

"She's Always a Woman" - Frequently kind and suddenly cruel, indeed. Billy's inability to contain his spite in some of these lyrics gives the song a weird tension, but I don't hear any attempt at democracy like I did with "Just the Way You Are" (where, as I said above, I hear the song as a kind of conversation that grants the subject some--though admittedly not much--agency as a character), so for me this is mostly just a kind of nice song that doused with a jarring sourness.

"Get It Right the First Time" - Spirited album filler.

kinda hate "She's Always a Woman" - piano part is too busy, the lyrics are (as noted) a shitty riff on a (mostly) shitty Dylan lyric, and while the melody is v pretty (def McCartney/Emmitt Rhodes school) the other crap gets in the way too much imo

"Get It Right The First Time" has some nice things going on in the arrangement, especially the flute, but man does it feel like album filler. No surprise it's the first thing we've hit on this record that's not either a single or a fan favorite or both. Probably fun to play on, but there's just not enough hooks and the whole concept is pretty lame. "Get it right the first time, that's the main thing ... Get it right the next time, that's not the same thing" --- zzzz, really, "not the same thing?" How so? Who cares? Why bother?

yeah it's fine. enjoyable but rote