yeah conceptually it's hard to figure out but everything's so hooky it's impossible not to sing along
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 11 September 2017 16:52 (seven years ago) link
I am learning that the only kind of Joel I find tolerable is Joel in late 50s/early 60s r'n'r pastiche mode
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 16:53 (seven years ago) link
i love singing along with this part
They will tell you you can't sleep alone in a strange placeThen they'll tell you can't sleep with somebody elseAh but sooner or later you sleep in your own spaceEither way it's okay, you wake up with yourself
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 11 September 2017 16:54 (seven years ago) link
can't fuck with that Stilleto opening on this one though, Marley Marl otm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNqTz2mMwNE
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link
are those backing vocals in "i never said..." the single most beatles-y moment in the billy joel catalog?
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 11 September 2017 16:58 (seven years ago) link
I'd give the honor to "Don't Ask Me Why" but that might be more solo McCartney-y.
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:09 (seven years ago) link
There's something about - not just being a kid, but being someone who has only been alive for a few years and starting to recognize moments in culture.
My parents owned a little corner grocery store out in the woods, and every Tuesday, our magazine guy would deliver the latest periodicals. Stuff like Rolling Stone, Creem, Hit Parader... magazines that looking back on it now, seems kind of a weird inventory for such a rural retailer.
This was 1983 or so, when I was 9 or 10. I was getting into Top 40, and sometimes in these interviews, someone would point out something like "When Glass Houses came out in 1980..." I had memories of that year, but they were limited mostly to family things. Any culture from that year was likely "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" or CHiPs.
So to suddenly become aware of this musical past that happened without my knowing it was always a weird feeling. And yet, it had only been three years since it happened.
I went through this later in my teen years -- "Wait a minute, I was listening to Billy Joel in the 4th grade when I could've been digging on some ZEN ARCADE?"
Anyway. I remember Bosom Buddies when it first aired, but didn't realize it was a Billy Joel song until later. Boy was I excited.
― pplains, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:09 (seven years ago) link
ha, there's a stretch in my never-to-be-finished Girl Talk-esque megamix project that makes extensive use of "Stiletto," maybe i'll upload that when we get to that song, for all y'all's listening "enjoyment."
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:14 (seven years ago) link
or white album-y! whereas my life harmonies are more sgt peppery.
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:18 (seven years ago) link
catching up:Only the Good Die Young - hot Joel on a platter, verritfied club bangerShe's Always a Woman - GloppyEverybody Has a Dream - i kinda hate when songs feel like are trying to be a singalong and the "ALL TOGETHER NOW!!!" aspect to the chorus kills this for me....
Big Shot - never really thought about the benny and the jets thing before but I hear it now...hearing Axl sing it on YouTube made it it rise in my estimation, I never really thought about the verses being GnResque but they kind are...Honesty - it's okay...My Life - Def one of my fav Billy Joel jams, and seems like a very iconic
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 September 2017 17:29 (seven years ago) link
my favorite thing is the riffBah dum, bom(tinkle piano keys)Da-da-da-da da da duh
yes! the tinkly keys are everything! i think i've already said this somewhere upthread, but that's one of those billy joel piano signatures that i can never get enough of and if he did it on every song i'd be ok with that. "ballad of billy the kid" is another good example. "all for leyna" maybe the pinnacle.
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:39 (seven years ago) link
did Paul Simon rip off this melody/vocal phrasing for "I Know What I Know"...? I can't unhear it now.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:52 (seven years ago) link
general groove/piano riff also really really remind me of Steely Dan's "Time Out of Mind"
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
For some reason, I've always imagined that the rival in "My Rival" was Billy Joel.― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Friday, 4 April 2014 13:41 (three years ago) Permalinkthis is amazing― some dude, Friday, 4 April 2014 13:47 (three years ago) Permalinkhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Thestranger1977.jpg"I was the whining stranger"― some dude, Friday, 4 April 2014 13:48 (three years ago) Permalink
― nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Friday, 4 April 2014 13:41 (three years ago) Permalink
this is amazing
― some dude, Friday, 4 April 2014 13:47 (three years ago) Permalink
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Thestranger1977.jpg
"I was the whining stranger"
― some dude, Friday, 4 April 2014 13:48 (three years ago) Permalink
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 11 September 2017 18:05 (seven years ago) link
for some reason the production on 52nd Street is starting to feel "80s" to me where everything previous feels v "70s" but couldn't really point to what's changed.
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 September 2017 18:31 (seven years ago) link
folks! just dropping in with a question… haven't been listening along and for that matter have no viciously strong views pro or con…
why is Springsteen so universally beloved in white people NJ (like maybe Ira Kaplan, Glenn Danzig and their respective constituents do not care for him, but I'm not aware one way of the other) but white people LI has shit tons of people who can't stand him? why does he not represent the hopes and dreams of working class LI? does he not rock enuff or something?
― veronica moser, Monday, 11 September 2017 19:07 (seven years ago) link
but white people LI has shit tons of people who can't stand JOEL
― veronica moser, Monday, 11 September 2017 19:08 (seven years ago) link
I have no idea but would hazard that Springsteen's rep is that he treats people well/pays back into the community/etc. and Joel seems like a garden variety self-absorbed drunken asshole...?
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 19:11 (seven years ago) link
for someone who's been as iconic and super famous for as long as he has, there's remarkably little dirt on or bad blood w/ Springsteen
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 September 2017 19:43 (seven years ago) link
Some great anecdotes in that MIX article:
Ramone wrote in his book, Making Records: The Scenes Behind the Music, “To help Billy find the right voice when he was recording, I made him a control box with Echoplexes, MXR phasers and flangers. We labeled the buttons ‘Elvis,’ ‘Doo-wop,’ ‘R&B,’ etc. and put it right on the piano so he could switch the effects around until he hit one he liked.”
In Ramone’s book, he quotes this anecdote about “My Life” from Liberty DeVitto: “[Phil] wanted me to play a very straight beat, and I bucked him. ‘I ain’t playing that disco bullshit,’ I said. Phil got up, slammed something on the console and scolded me like he was my father. ‘You’ve been in this business for what—12 minutes? And you’re gonna tell me what you’re gonna play? Just get the hell in there and play the way I told you to play.’ I grumbled about it then, but every time I see the Gold record I received for ‘My Life’ on the wall, I mutter, ‘F—in’ guy was right!’”
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 11 September 2017 20:04 (seven years ago) link
lmao
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 11 September 2017 20:17 (seven years ago) link
truly, who could have guessed in 1978 that disco beats sold records
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 20:18 (seven years ago) link
I *GUESS* the hi-hat pattern is discoish (open every other beat) but I don't think of this as a disco number.
― Tegumai Bopsulai (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 11 September 2017 20:20 (seven years ago) link
I have known so many drummers who are like "I won't play a [insert random genre] beat" it is the weirdest thing. (and different from not being *able* to)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 20:25 (seven years ago) link
like there is an unspoken Drummer Code and if they play the wrong kind of beat they will be thrown out of the Drummer's Guild and barred from Rocking in Public.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 20:26 (seven years ago) link
Οὖτις, sometimes it is both won't and can't.
Back to "My Life," I suppose one could cite the octave bass line, but the guitar is nondisco; so are the halftime bits.
― Tegumai Bopsulai (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 11 September 2017 20:27 (seven years ago) link
yeah i have never thought of "my life" as disco
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 September 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link
"it is the weirdest thing." I don't think its weird at all, but it is becoming less common. up until 20 years ago, I encountered the "I won't do this because it sucks and is not real music" attitude all the damn time.
― veronica moser, Monday, 11 September 2017 20:33 (seven years ago) link
lets be real, drummers are weird
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 11 September 2017 21:30 (seven years ago) link
haven't been following this thread too closely, but I see someone stumbled on my comment about "My Rival". I can confirm that I was specifically thinking of The Stranger, because of both the "whining stranger" line, and also the reference to "Anthony's Bar & Grill", which I thought was maybe a joke on the Anthony of "Movin' Out".
― Moodles, Monday, 11 September 2017 21:45 (seven years ago) link
"sure, he's a Jolly Roger": Captain Jack
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 11 September 2017 22:02 (seven years ago) link
..."until he answers for his [ain't no] crime"
― fact checking cuz, Monday, 11 September 2017 22:07 (seven years ago) link
Something about "My Life" is more 70s/80s/timeless lounge than "Piano Man" itself. The piano sounds almost like a fake synth piano, the whole thing is made for a one-man piano busker. Not so much disco as easy-listening cha-cha-cha samba, kind of self-aware easy listening à la Rupert Holmes and "Margaritaville."
― Eazy, Monday, 11 September 2017 22:27 (seven years ago) link
agree! that opening riff and into the flourish is total piano lounge in my mind
like it's the musical version of the when harry mey sally "white man's overbite" & the men are wearing leather sportcoats & the women all smoke dunhills
https://media.tenor.com/images/5ca3980117f310c62f933d891b31232f/tenor.gif
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 11 September 2017 22:45 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yget4xVAulE
Zanzibar, my favorite album track when I first got into this record, closes out side one. It began life as a hazy idea to do some kind of exoticist sketch of faraway lands, etc. Maybe Billy'd been listening to Dylan's "Mozambique." Thankfully, Phil Ramone, on hearing the title, proclaimed that it sounded like the name of a "jazzy sports bar," and Joel wisely reverted to his write-what-you-know approach.
The trumpet solos, as mentioned above, are courtesy Freddie Hubbard, who probably needs no introduction with the jazzbos in the room; in addition to an extensive discography as bandleader, he'd recorded with John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Art Blakey, Herbie Hancock, and the list goes on. The 5:13 album version fades out on the second solo, but the full 6:46 take can be heard on the "My Lives" box set. Wiki: Joel also recalled that after playing with Hubbard on the song, drummer Liberty DeVitto claimed that "Now I feel like a grown up."[4]
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 14:46 (seven years ago) link
Re Devito and "My Life" -- boy, did these guys hate disco.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 14:54 (seven years ago) link
i absolutely adore this song. mostly for the sublime chorus, but also: the swagger of the verse melody, which sounds like it's dancing along with ali and running the bases with pete rose. the gorgeous breakdown and build back up into a completely different song (and completely different band) in the bridge/solo section with the freddie hubbard payoff. the sound of the piano (is that all electric, or is there both electric and acoustic piano going on here?). the details behind the piano, especially the vibes. i even like the lyric even though i'm not sure it works. is this a high-school kid out for a night in his old man's car, trying to get to second base with a waitress? or an older dude who's a regular with a tab at the bar? do older dudes/regulars have dreams of getting to second base? do younger dudes run tabs? and where exactly is this bar that has muhammad ali on the tv (which would've been a pricey pay-per-view event) and a shantytown nearby? what country are we in? or what's going on here? but i really don't care. he gets to the "i've got the old man's car/i've got a jazz guitar" part and i am melting, and if leon spinks is somewhere in this here bar, he can knock me out with one punch and i won't even feel it.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 15:01 (seven years ago) link
i also adore action bronson's homage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFHGkCMETqk
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 15:02 (seven years ago) link
i like this! even more so than Movin Out or Scenes from an Italian Restaurant this one really feels like it's straight out of a broadway show
that repeating fast-paced piano line reminds me of "At The Ballet" from A Chorus Line: "Daddy always thought that he married beneath himThat's what he saidthat's what he said"
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 16:15 (seven years ago) link
Just realized how much the chorus groove of this reminds me of the verse groove from "Movin' Out." That is not a bad thing.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 16:31 (seven years ago) link
Vintage live version. Very Steely Dan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN8ngsgZhTg
― Eazy, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 18:14 (seven years ago) link
how many billy songs have woah-oh-oh parts in them? is someone keeping count? the one in "zanzibar" come at a spot where one of those tinkly piano runs would have worked almost as well.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 21:04 (seven years ago) link
I think I enjoy BJ songs more if I pretend they're being performed by Rowlf the Dog.
but this is front-to-back awful imo. Stiff, rhythmically and melodically forced, z-grade Steely Dan lyrics (now with added shitty sports metaphor!), no hooks, bellowed vocal trying *really* hard to make this work but just ... no.
This song makes me feel bad for Freddie Hubbard.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 21:10 (seven years ago) link
lol Shakes reading yr reactions itt is like what I picure would happen if joined a "broccoli of the month" club<3
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 21:14 (seven years ago) link
yeah yeahhttps://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FdwCDhA5qVhYoU%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
lol
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 21:26 (seven years ago) link
Dude went full Attilla for a sec in Eazy's clip!
I agree with Shakey on one thing. The late 70s such a halcyon time for overstuffed baseball metaphors.
I love this song. Would even love a mix of just four bars from the verse looped over and over again. Evil jazz guitarists driving down the turnpike, passing under a streetlight on every fourth beat.
Yankees stealing the headlines... Goddamm does this guy enjoy reading a newspaper. That line was a big hit during the Shea Stadium shows though.
― pplains, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:11 (seven years ago) link
More childhood misreadings: it never occurred to me that "Ali" referred to Muhammad Ali but rather to some young guy working his ass off as a dancer at this bar. Makes more sense anyway with people trying to steer him away from going downtown and blowing his night's tips buying people free drinks.But I do think the song holds together well - narrator is old enough to be at a bar but still kinda faking it, excited to *be* a nobody at a bar, I've even got a *tab*, just like in the movies! It's like a teenage "Deacon Blues" with even more basic and maybe less pathetic aspirations: drink, watch TV, try and pick up a waitress. Oddly, we never even really hear about him *playing* the guitar (unless this is another Piano Man scenario and he's observing this all from the stage, off to the side of Ali's dance routine)... another prop of adult coolness, like Billy's trumpet on the cover, that he's not actually prepared to back up.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 02:30 (seven years ago) link
I've been to a lot of sports bars. Pretty much none have featured live jazz, and even fewer have had male professional dancers.
Maybe I just don't get out enough. Clearly I don't know as much about bars as BAR PRO BJ. After all, he knows that all the hepcats order Tonic and Gins.
― Tegumai Bopsulai (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 13 September 2017 02:39 (seven years ago) link
Ali on the stage is a dancer guyGives away drinks for free
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 03:02 (seven years ago) link