Itunes, Billboard, and the marginalization of black music and black audiences in America

cupcakke/rico nasty/asian doll/cuban doll/molly brazy/bali baby

Not heard any of these yet but the names and associations behind them alone are fascinating in a marketing sense.

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/black-musicians-on-being-boxed-in-by-randb-and-rap-expectations-we-fit-in-so-many-things/

Moses Sumney, Kami and Dawn Richard...

good article -- dawn's words on the expected trajectory for a black artist (esp black woman artist) are very insightful

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/how-hip-hop-edged-grittier-rb-singers-out-of-the-mainstream-w504678

It's all rap's fault...(well sorta) says writer Elias Light and those interviewed

Why did the doors close for deep and gritty vocalists, who were an important part of R&B's mainstream as the genre progressed through soul, funk, Quiet Storm, disco, Eighties synth fusions, house music and the hip-hop-inflected mutations of the Nineties? More than 20 conversations* with artists, producers, label executives and radio programmers indicate that low-register R&B singers were squeezed on two sides at the turn of the millennium: First, rappers took over the vocal ranges that once belonged to R&B, and then struggling labels abandoned R&B groups, which traditionally supported a wide variety of voices. These shifts were compounded as mainstream radio stopped playing R&B songs, which limited the avenues of exposure for all R&B singers but especially hurt those who favor low, throaty intonations.

Lower register singers still exist in the radio niche known as Urban Adult Contemporary. However, Top 40 stations are accepting very few R&B songs – analyzing Billboard charts shows that in 1996, 26 singles from singers made it from the mainstream R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart to the Pop Airplay chart; last year, that number fell to five**.

** The five singers to cross over were Beyoncé, Tory Lanez, the Weeknd, John Legend and PartyNextDoor. Rihanna gets major support at pop radio, so she is not considered an R&B artist for these purposes; Drake is counted as a rapper. Even if you chose to count both those artists as R&B singers, the number of crossover singles from singers has still fallen from 26 to 11.

that is also a very nice article! but i don't think that's the right way to interpret it

It's a bit awkward in its interpretation of rap and r'n'b and how program directors make their choices

Songwriter/producer Warren "Oak" Felder (Alessia Cara, Kehlani) shares a similar story. "There was one particular artist I'm not going to name, but we sat down with their team [in 2011] and they wrote out other genre names to call the music," he remembers. "The names were like, 'soulful noir.' That's how toxic that word had become."

I'm probably wrong, I HOPE I'm wrong, but my first thought was "I really hope that isn't Usher"

also I don't really get the argument here, big voices and raspy voices and low voices are not mutually exclusive.

I am having trouble getting past the conflation of "low" with "rough" right at the beginning of the article.

(I thought I had written "like katherine" in that post, oops.)

Also, Nelly is a terrible example because he doesn't have I would term a "low" voice.

i met meshell ndgeocello--this was maybe 3 years ago, maybe longer--i remember her saying that exact same thesis to me (as the RS article)

I don't think it's an unreasonable thesis but it's not presented very well in that article.

i met meshell ndgeocello--this was maybe 3 years ago, maybe longer--i remember her saying that exact same thesis to me (as the RS article)

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, October 17, 2017

yeah she said something similar at EMP a couple years ago

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-pop-diva-identity-crisis-1508348017

"In the age of hip-hop, female pop stars are facing an identity crisis.

In July, R&B/hip-hop surpassed rock for the first time to officially become the biggest music genre in America, according to Nielsen Music, which tracks online streams and digital and physical albums. As of Oct. 12, R&B/hip-hop has driven 24% of music consumption in 2017—more than rock’s 21% and double pop’s 12% share."

Imagine if pop radio was open to even more r'n'b. Can't access full WSJ article. Does it propose a new business plan for Taylor Swift?

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/20-best-pop-albums-of-2017-w513516

Am pretty sure that all of the critics who wrote for this like r'n'b and rap (and I like their writing), but the definition of pop used here seems kinda rockist and blue-eyed

I guess Bruno Mars was a late 2016 release, so that's why he wasn't included.

what would you have swapped in that doesn’t?

also have you seen the jingle ball lineups

he was on the 2016 list
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/20-best-pop-albums-of-2016-w455459/bruno-mars-24k-magic-w455593

i mean i understand your point but pop as it is currently staked our in the us is very white (with some latinx tinges). there was no rap or r&b artist on the lineup for the jingle ball i went to sunday in boston and the only mcs on the nationwide bill were logic and g eazy

(and last year there were r&b and hip hop lists too)

i wish pop radio played more r&b. it is criminal that beyoncé needed to hop on a freaking ed sheeran song in order to top the charts for the first time this decade

So pop 2017 is just jingle ball emo, guitar strum & tasteful dance beat, retro rock, and Sam Smith paying homage to old soul singers?

The list finds space for Amber Coffman, Blondie and Aimee Mann who are not topping the charts these days, but doesn't find room for retro focused or similarly artisinal African-American artists, or African-American artists who are in the charts redefining pop

can you name some? not being confrontational just genuinely curious

Curtis Harding, Daniel Caesar, Ms. Jody, Miguel, Stokley Williams and can't the rap that makes the chart count as pop

How about Mary J. Blige too

as i noted earlier this likely isn’t the only genre list

so maybe wait until they’ve all rolled out and then nitpick

going to check out ms jody though, thanks

No problem.

I get that they're defining "pop" as music that is sung and includes melodic hooks, it's just interesting who in 2017 both on and off the charts gets to be included in that definition and who does not.

well it's also defined in part by label and radio and streaming-playlist siloing. like kelly clarkson probably won't make the r&b list, you know?

And Aimee Mann gets to be pop, rock and probably Americana too.

Not exactly related, but did you see this article

http://www.vulture.com/2017/12/defining-the-decade-in-pop-music.html

It’s about Antonoff style pop and its weaknesses

If Kelly Clarkson could sing like Teena Marie she could probably be pop and r’n’b.

i did see that piece and i agree with a lot of it. pop radio this year was mostly boring - the combined influence of those big songwriting camps and the ever-more-concentrated creation of radio playlists has been deathly

and yeah the term "adult album alternative" (where any putative mann singles would line up) does a lot of heavy lifting as far as positioning

Ms. Jody btw appeals largely to over 50 poc who like to line dance and are at the top end of the adult r’n’b listening bracket even if some of their synth and entendre filled southern soul faves don’t get played on such outlets.

Such an audience I'd say is as pop as an Aimee Mann one

sure and i’m sorry i didn’t hear it earlier in the year

i’d recommend eric weisbard’s TOP 40 DEMOCRACY if you haven’t read it yet

Have heard of it, but haven't read it yet. Thanks.

the Aimee Mann record is actually quite lovely if anyone wants to actually engage with it rather than using it as a prop in an argument

it is very good!!

I want to read more about the Antonoff-ization of pop music.

jack antonoff produced three albums, only one of which (Taylor Swift) came close to getting play on mainstream pop and particularly pop radio -- and even it isn't doing so phenomenally -- and a handful of songs in 2017. that's it. that's all. compare to someone like my nemesis Benny Blanco, who genuinely is unescapble: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Blanco_production_discography

other people with far more influence on pop music in 2017 than everything Antonoff has done in the past decade combined: Ali Payami, Julia Michaels, Sia, as much as I hate to say it the Chainsmokers

yeah benny blanco's persistence has been pretty amazing to me. i guess he's super-chameleonic, which helps

so katherine would you say that antonoff is like pop's equivalent of a prestige tv auteur

Man, does that make Benny Blanco Chuck Lorre?

sure, why not