IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

I probably like it better than any 70s album except The Stranger.

I will grudgingly confess that RoD is better than I remembered, but is still not going to become a fixture on my turntable.

i think once we've wrapped up the chronology i'll double back for some selection of tracks from that period, even if it's just me on the thread

i believe you will not be alone on the thread. and while i don't know if this makes it better or not, in my memory the second hassles album, hour of the wolf, was more, um, interesting.

After The Stranger, Glass Houses, and Innocent Man, RoD is probably my next favorite, but those three are in their own tier

man i love this song, wow

the minor key derivation in the middle is such a rich choice

song sorta indirectly reminds me of "vienna"

i think i meant to say "digression" not "derivation" lmao

this is the first time i've felt motivated to skip ahead. album is quality all the way to the end imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo_vn_Ilsu8

The River of Dreams, lead single off the album of nearly the same title, was Billy Joel's last big hit. On the Hot 100 for 27 weeks, it peaked at #3 in October of 1993 (with Mariah Carey's "Dreamlover" at #1 and SWV's double-A-side of "Right Here (Human Nature)" and "Downtown" at #2). It also made it to #3 in the UK, behind songs called "Mr. Vain" and "It Keeps Rainin' (Tears From My Eyes)" which are both ciphers to me. Meanwhile it hit #1 in Australia and New Zealand, and top ten in a half-dozen other markets. Finally, it hit #1 on Adult Contemporary, and since I haven't done this in a while let me just run down the top five to give a sense of what that chart looked like at this date: at #2, Tina Turner's "I Don't Want To Fight" (dethroned by Billy) then Sting's "Fields of Gold," "Dreamlover" again, and Michael Jackson's "Will You Be There."

Billy's described the songwriting in instinctive, unforced terms - came in a dream, Biblical phrases started popping up in the shower, "I still don't really know what that song is about," et cetera. As mentioned yesterday, it has something of a version history; I haven't been able to find the Latin-language "Gregorian chant" intro, but thanks to the "My Lives" box we do have one take still featuring the Lullabye section as an instrumental break and a far less compelling rhythm track. This assemblage of outtakes also contains a few other takes, though they don't add too much to the picture. Finally, some versions of the single also featured a "Percapella remix."

The music video, Wikipedia asserts, was directed by one Andy Monahan, who'd previously used "the same lighting, locations and camera angles" in his video for Elton's "You've Gotta Love Someone," though to be honest I couldn't sit through the entirety of that one to check on this claim. Arguably more of a must-watch is Billy's Grammy performance, featuring a well-received comment on the decision, earlier in the night, to cut off a speech by Frank Sinatra on the occasion of his being given a "Legend Award." Stick it to the man, Billy!

https://img.discogs.com/_dJXjrn7H5qbePZInUD7bZocAtM=/fit-in/595x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2229856-1291389603.jpeg.jpg

https://img.discogs.com/z91lyDNL0DFkeXq8xEg7apxE4JA=/fit-in/596x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2229856-1291389624.jpeg.jpg

this is the second time in the billy joel catalog that i've been really deeply struck by the quality of production on a song i thought i knew every contour of (bc this is one of the earwormiest earworms ever written), last time was "just the way you are"

On the Hot 100 for 27 weeks, it peaked at #3 in October of 1993 (with Mariah Carey's "Dreamlover" at #1 and SWV's double-A-side of "Right Here (Human Nature)" and "Downtown" at #2)

damn october '93 hot 100 full of bangers

"valuable advertising time going by" yeah you show 'em billy!!!

imho this song is a masterstroke, and a return of so much of what i loved about "classic billy," set in a musical landscape we've never heard from him before. the lyrics could maybe be tightened up or made more specific in places, but the density of hooks is like nothing we've heard since an innocent man. and the lush sweetness of the production perfectly evokes the sense that 43-year-old dads have dreams and fears, and deserve redemption, as much as do teenagers packing lucky strikes and a mint called sen-sen. also the deployment of gospel sounds feels earned and respectful (to me as an outsider) rather than appropriative.

the fun of dealing with this album has been discovering that rather than one lone gem surfacing in a blah album, this song is just the very best track in a pretty-good album. up until this past week i would have said he basically should have packed it in after storm front and had this be the "september"-style big hit off Greatest Hits III. but it turns out this is more of a defensible album than either of the two that preceded it, depending on your affection for VH1 music.

zachary alford ("known for his work in the Saturday Night Live Band" according to wikipedia) is the credited drummer here but i like that it just kinda sounds like a drum loop

also bless any song in which the pauses get progressively longer

Alford was in Bowie's Earthling-era band too.

I was mighty sick of "River of Dreams" in fall '93, and it didn't go away. At the time it was dismissed as "Graceland" lite. OTM about what a masterful piece of songwriting it is.

Agree with what's already been said.

This used to come on the radio, and for a moment, I'd think it was "Streets of Philadelphia". 1993 a very somnolent year for the Boomer acts.

Alford was in Bowie's Earthling-era band too.

and at the time of this recording, he had just come off a tour with bruce springsteen and the not-e-street-band.

Great song, arrangement is more out there than in recalled

Agreed that Billy is ending off on a good note w River of Dreams

This used to come on the radio, and for a moment, I'd think it was "Streets of Philadelphia".

i never paid any attention to the lyric, which, damn, is rather on-the-nose with its springsteen and u2 gospel-lite borrowings of rivers and promised lands and mysterious things i am looking for and haven't found. it's a damn good lyric nonetheless. it's graceful and sounds lived-in. i love "we all end in the ocean/we all start in the streams." and i love that toward the end he throws in a moment of personal agnostic clarity about how he isn't a spiritual man and "i'm not sure about a life after this." he may, it turns out, just be a middle-aged dude out sleepwalking. and thinking about some serious shit.

the production is undeniable. after an album or two of songs that overstayed their welcome by a minute or two, my favorite part of this one may be the final minute of vamping.

the vamping, in another touch of innocent-man musical salvation, includes a little bit of the Cadillacs' forgotten "Gloria."

my favorite thing is the different ways "in the middle of the night" works as hook - at the start of the refrain, where it comes back from silence, and at the end, where it completes the thought, set to a different melody.

love the madman piano-hammering that slips into this deceptively mellow AC track. that, the drum track, and the very selective use of his rockin' soul voice ("we're all CARRIED ALOOOONG!"), let us know he has not, indeed, just stayed out in the shade with those beers. there is life and passion in these late night wanderings. the grammy performance really brings this out - never thought I'd say that about any performance of anything at the grammys.

This song is the reason we had this album in my house. My dad, who was totally indifferent to 99% of music, got very enamored of this song when one of his friends had some sort of explanation of the lyrics and how it tied to Hindu concepts. (I didn't understand that now or then.)

Between his playing it and hearing it on the radio, I got pretty damn sick of this song in 1993. Nowadays, I can enjoy it more - it's got a killer hook, cool production. I always got a Bobby McFerrin vibe, maybe from the falsetto in the beginning. I've heard in concert BJ extends that last break up to several minutes

Lovely song. Back when my allowance afforded me only like one or maybe two albums a month (CDs were effing expensive in the early 90s!), it was rare for me to shell out for an album--particularly a new album--on the strength of one song when I had countless classic albums, greatest hits collections and available pieces of Prince's back catalogue to collect, but this tune swayed me. There are definitely bits on this album that don't work for me (though "A Minor Variation" is the only one I feel compelled to skip these days), the attention that I ended up lavishing on albums back in those days vs. these (where things are infinitely easier to find and consume, yes, but also to disregard) proved rewarding.

Although I didn't make the connection at the time, I appreciate how this song appealed (and still appeals) to me in a way that Paul Simon's similarly flavoured material did not. Simon, circa Graceland, sounded like a boring adult to me (whereas now he sounds like an insufferably smug boring adult), while "The River of Dreams" sounds joyous, graceful, searching and uplifting. Even the self-help spirituality of the lyric works, particularly in light of (as fcc pointed out) the caveat of "God knows I've never been a spiritual man;" the song is less about adopting a quick-fix philosophy than it is about the desire for an undefinable something greater that agnosticism renders bittersweet. As a Last Big Hit from a major artist, this has to be one of the very few to rank, quality-wise, quite high among that artists very best material.

Who's on background vocals? Session musicians or the same pack of Billies that did "The Longest Time"?

If you tell me that's Color Me Badd, I'm going to drown myself in a river of fear.

wiki says: Wrecia Ford, B. David Witworth, Crystal Taliefero, Marlon Saunders, and George and Frank Simms, most of whom are also part of the "All About Soul" ensemble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLCXt4d-wz0

Two Thousand Years is the penultimate track. I can't listen to it right now, and there doesn't seem to be much worthwhile trivia online, so I'm going to have to trust you all on its qualities!

i think it's extremely good, one of joel's loveliest melodies married to that really gorgeously-produced ebbing acoustic guitar arrangement. lyric is a little hokey but also how can you deny:

There will be miracles
After the last war is won
Science and poetry rule in the new world to come

Again, the plentitude of riches on what looked like a tombstone of an album has impressed the hell out of me

very pretty song

I remember some critic* taking shots at this song with something along the lines of "Billy Joel has a new song called '2000 Years' that is coincidentally the worst song of the last 2000 years," but whatever. It's not my favourite--sandwiched between my two favourite songs on the album, I always got a little impatient with it--but that little riff that sounds like either a synth or an accordion (the Wiki personnel list suggests it is the former, or at least that it is definitely not the latter), is nice.

*I thought it was EW, but when I went to look up their original review I remembered that they were quite fond of the record.

this is a cool track on first listen - the oomph coming in to support the pretty piano-and-voice stuff works, feels of a piece, not just dropped in by the producer. that, and the "it's been a long time and now i'm with you" part, are VERY classic billy. could have been on The Stranger.

i'm also in the right niche to find the synth riverdance riff charming - sounds like it should be in Sierra's Conquest of the Longbow - rather that obnoxious and cartoony. apparently he swaps it for traditional instruments live... bummer.

the riverdance bit sounds like "there's a hole in the bucket" with three orchestrated "ballad of billy the kid" chords as a cadence.

the song is a little corny and more than a little lovely. i swear i hear hints of george michael and michael jackson in this song, trying to heal the world with love and a big, sweeping melody. i think one of the reasons this album is so good is that a guy who's spent the last few years seemingly throwing random words on top of his melodies suddenly has things he wants to say. not sure if it's inspired by being in love or having a kid or being on the verge of divorce or being confused by the world or all of the above, but he just seems so *open* to things and ideas here, and so much less cynical.

btw "shades of grey" is CONSTANTLY in my head

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEtcu-l9wDo

Famous Last Words closes the album, and in terms of the canon and most fans, it also closes Billy Joel's pop career. In interviews, he says that he didn't sit down intending to write a final song, but that when he was done writing it, he realized "huh - I guess I'm done."

For those committed only to our original "Cold Spring Harbor through River of Dreams" remit, of course, this song also closes the project at hand. In case some folks are bowing out now, let me say thanks so much to everyone who participated over the past five months; it's been a blast rediscovering this artist with you all.

If you're up for it, I still have a list covering a smattering of digital-only singles, contributions to comps and soundtracks, tracks unique to Greatest Hits III, and the like. I'll also flag up Billy's classical album for a day's listening, and finally double back to give the Hassles and Attila their due.

I suppose we should endure his Dylan cover on Greatest Hits III.

I love this song. As perfect a final statement from an artist as could ever be hoped for, the difference being that Billy is writing from the perspective of middle age rather than old age. We've become accustomed to late-career statements from everyone from Leonard Cohen to Clint Eastwood that feel like summations of a life as well as a career; this isn't really that, but as a perspective on reaching a different stage of life--"comfort in my coffee cup" taking the place of the "cold beer in the shade" of the thirty-something Billy of "Keeping the Faith"--it is poignant, and all the more so for how unforced it comes across in its bittersweet sentiment. I don't know of another song that addresses middle age so gracefully.

I'm not finished with this thread of DC isn't. True, I'll likely sit out the classical stuff (and we'll see with Hassles/Attila), but as I have never knowingly heard any pop material he produced after this album, I'll be curious to hear what scraps he's had to offer us over the last 24 years. But this thread has been an absolute blast, and I feel an intense gratitude towards the good Doctor for running it. Thanks, and you rock.

Very pleased with River of Dreams. Really only one "meh" song in the bunch, which to be honest with myself, is par for any of his albums.

As far as Famous Last Words, my ears kept getting perked from some of the callbacks: last of the souvenirs, one final serenade... And I don't know, for some reason, I'd like to hear a Natalie Merchant cover of this. See if you can work that out for me, Dr.

And thanks, Doc, for compiling this over the past few months. It's allowed me to get to know better, for better and worse, a musician I've looked up to for the past 35 years or so. It's definitely been an easier journey than the one we took with the Eagles. Holy crap, was it an easier journey.

Looking forward to the Amplifier Fire/Brain Invasion we've got coming up.

Not a bad tune, but his singing is florid.

really? how so? i mean, it's billy, he's not exactly the most subtle singer

I really like this, can't imagine a better Billy song to go out on....kind of incredible, not even so much that he wrote a song that's final, but that he actually WALKED AWAY...

I'm trying to think of another time that another pop superstar walked away (not counting ppl like Syd Barrett or Skip Spence or w/e...or Sly Stone which was def more of a mental health/drug thing) in arguable maybe not their "peak" but not far off (big hit single, top 5 album, 5X platinum)

The Police?

Synchronicity is their worst album, but ILM is quite alone in thinking so

contributions to comps and soundtracks

One vote here for his cover of Cohen's "Light as the Breeze."

oh yeah shit, the Police definitely....that's even more walking away at your peak, that's retiring after your thriller

but bands breaking up is a different thing. none of the three walked away from making records. they just didn't want to do it with each other anymore.

my ears kept getting perked from some of the callbacks: last of the souvenirs, one final serenade

yes! this song is a perfect going-away gift, from the person who's going away. another callback, maybe maybe not intentional: the opening tom-tom hits, which make me think he's about to start playing "allentown." the yacht-rock breeziness of the tune and arrangement are a perfect soundtrack for this final scene in which we stand on a dock on long island sound and watch our middle-aged hero sail away for the last time, having learned from his mistakes, and now off to repeat them somewhere else over the horizon, out of our view.

damn this album.

damn you billy for sailing away.

thank you doctor c and everybody else i got to drink alone with and walk through bedford stuy alone with in this amazing thread. and yes, keep going, good doctor. we don't have to quit just 'cause billy did.

i love this song and i think it's a really unusual yet fitting final track of both the album and his career

if the classical stuff is getting covered then i'm sticking around bc i'm curious