The Associates: Have the years been kind?

You are to please tell her that my estimation of her has grown even stronger.

"Mona Property Girl" (and its superior incarnation "A Girl Named Property") should be pretty obvious...it's a rambling about females being looked upon as Earth-mothers/all-giving goddesses and having tribute paid to them by naming things after them as a sort of worship or as a means of comfort or company (like the song says) taken to silly proportions... ("Mona property girl...Mona property world...Mona office blocks...") I think it's a funny song, probably my favourite by Associates.

(Though at this second I listen me to "Mona Property Girl.")

Michael Dempsey gave a cryptic reference to further tracks for release at the end of his brief liner notes for Double Hipness, though I wonder if he was more referring to the still unreleased state of Affectionate at that point. Still though, hmm.

(i love sulk, yes i do)

It's absolutely astounding. Björk being a massive fan of Mackenzie's makes sense but in the Sugarcubes or solo I've never sensed her work to be quite as...*searches for the word*...careening, shall we say.

It's also a case where all the stories about the recording and the run up to it, what went into it, what they tried, etc. all make sense. You read PR guff all the time about how some band's third album (which Sulk sorta was if you count Fourth Drawer Down's singles comp as the second) is going to be the Experimental Shift in Style What Is Different or soundbites about 'there were no rules in the studio, we decided to come in fresh' or whatever and they create something with a boring drum loop and keyboard part. Then there's this.

There's a double CD of singles WEA released last year with that and "Kites" on it.

Almost picked that up yesterday at Amoeba but it's a bit much for two songs, even with credit -- I did, however, quite happily find the first of the two BBC session discs used, which made me astoundingly happy. Also found one of the three archival rereleases of Billy's late solo stuff that One Little Indian put out -- the organization of it all is unclear, but the three discs are apparently an overview of everything that surfaced on Beyond the Sun, Memory Palace (the Haig collaborative disc) and Eurocentric, plus/minus some songs. Memory Palace has been rereleased with some extra remixes, so I'll skip that, but Transmission Impossible is what I snagged yesterday -- the more 'torchy' songs he did with Steve Aungle and others, I gather. The remaining disc is Auchtermatic, which I believe covers the more electronic/dance stuff with Aungle.

Fucking hell, they just seem more and more amazing, and I only have Fourth Drawer Down and Sulk! I'm going to obtain the rest once The Affectionate Punch comes out -- it'll be a good time for a Billy Mac buying binge.

It's better than that, though. We should really do a late period Billy Mackenzie S/D...

I'd love to snag Transmission Impossible and Auchtermatic both — I don't know Outernational or Beyond the Sun, but Memory Palace was decent, not terrific. Eurocentric sounded great and got glowing reviews, but went out of print so quickly I wouldn't know. I actually really enjoyed some of the '93 Rankine reunion stuff on Double Hipness quite a bit — nothing like the original magic, but shame they couldn't hold it together.

Maybe someone will recommend a nice convenient accessible song which will change my mind about them completely.

Speaking of production though, was listened to these 2 this weekend and came to wonder about the sounds in Sulk. I read something about the production once but can't remember where. Anyone have any details, specifically regarding the sounds? There's all these bell like sounds that just don't sound like analog synths, but it's too early for FM synths. Were they using a PPG Wave? Any other thoughts?

As do I. But the one thing The Affectionate Punch lacks Sulk's intersection with pop, which of course, is what makes the latter so thrilling.

I think I prefer the songs on the Affectionate Punch as well. A bit less...melodramatic.

Mmmm, maybe — they're both pretty histrionic. But whatever they've retitled "Janice" is def. among their best songs.

Also, Dan, I've read what they used there too, and can't remember. But based on the pads alone, the PPG Wave is a good guess.

Affectionate Punch is one of the great lost post-punk records, along with the first three Sound LPs and the first three Comsat Angels LPs. I hope the reissue rectifies that, much like the Sound reissues did. The Comsats need a proper reissue (even though that 3 disc bootleg set was awesome, the band deserves some money, proper distribution, proper press.)

Sulk is otherworldly. It sits nicely along side Climate Of Hunter as a shining example of 80s avant pop.

you can listen to any of those singles that were compiled on Fourth Drawer Down and think, shit, were these produced yesterday, and why are they still so much better than most of what is "cutting edge" today?

they will always remain a cult band, but one who's influence will probably never be measured in the degree of what it should be sadly... I think it is due to the fact that people still have a hard time dealing with music that has exceedingly dynamic vocals.

i miss them, i really do.

And I bet Sulk informed Walker's songwriting on Climate.

I would venture to say that b/c while Billy and Alan listened to torch songs and the like for inspiration, people today listen to Fourth Drawer Down...

I have my own copy on order and await with anticipation. It's been an Associates/Mackenzie couple of weeks for me -- in the UK I picked up the Mackenzie Auchtermatic comp, which is seriously great, as well as the double-disc Singles comp from last year, while I ordered and received the second Radio 1 sessions disc. Time to drown in it all all over again.

"I preferred the US version of the Sulk to the UK one - the version of 'it's better this way' in particular, alot more manic...I prefer the track selection and running order too. I find Sulk to be just a bit scrappy (Bap De La Bap, Nude Spoons) or clumpy (Gloomy Sunday)in places, but perhaps that's just by comparison with the glittering singles popdrama or haunting melancholy of most of the rest of it.

Although its weaker tracks are worse than anything on Sulk, I think 'Perhaps' also has certain tracks which are better than anything on Sulk - eg cabaret glam emotiveness teetering on the edge of hysterical madness in the amazing 'Thirteen Feelings'....then fighting its way back from it with the astonishing 'The Stranger In Your Voice' (find it hard to imagine any voice other than MacKenzie's being able to soar through that amazing, skirling, swirling blast of synthetic/orchestral sound - though I'd like to hear Peter Hammill try!).
The instrumental versions of both these tracks on the extended cassette release show just how in-credible the music is.

-- Snowy Mann, February 3rd, 2003."

Despite wanting to replace my fading cassette - the only CD I can ever find of 'Sulk' is the UK version :(

Ned - I know what you mean wrt 'Wild & Lonely', but i think you should stick with it:
I had a copy of this on tape for ages, having also felt 'meh' after my initial listens - then after 6-8 months or so i tried it again one summer morning in the car while doing a motorway schlep...

To my amazement, it suddenly worked - I found much of it had a kind of poppy optimism suited to motorway cruising in hot/bright weather, sunroof open...(all the more surprising to me as I generally *hate* summer and all that associated yeeha stuff)

I also found via high volume in that enclosed space that i noticed lots of details in the sounds/instruments/production that i really liked - i think there is a real 'deftness' to the production: the instruments/sounds are all given enough room spatially/timbrally, there is a crystalline beauty/intricacy in how it's all arranged.

(You can pick out *every* layered element really clearly from the mix once you have noticed it or decided to pay attention to it, in a way that seems clearer and easier than most other albums i have, and as clearly as on any.
eg try listening on headphones, loud as is comfortable, and focus on all the little sonic thwackery and snaps and pops going on in the offbeats on, say, 'Fever')

No, the material's not anything like the freedom and intensity and half-madness of much of the earlier stuff (but then 'Breakfast' isn't either, and you like that?), but it has it's own appeal - as a work i place it more towards Fagen/Steely Dan type of stuff (ok not *like* them but y'know more like that than 4th Drawer Down !)

Examples of Particulars i like:

good string arrangements throughout

'Calling All Around the World' - like some great 1960's pop song, brimming with optimism, complete with harpsichordy stabs during first verse, the BBC Radio2 'tijuana brass' type feel throughout, the vocal from refrain 2:48 to 3:07...

That 13-second ascending vocal line from about 3:41 to 3:54 of 'Where There's Love'

The subtle triple-echo added just to the 2nd snare hit of each bar during the verses of 'Ever Since That Day'

'Something's Got to Give' - the sonic edges: the little bubbling/gurgling sounds of synth & hyperfast gtr picking popping up; the *sharpest* of pizzicato strings; the processed tablas/congas that appear for about 15 seconds at 2:16, and from 4:15 to 4:30; and the way those seem to be further stretched and warped into providing another rhythmic element from 3:28 to 3:57

'Strasbourg Square' - the first of 2 lovely melancholy tracks to finish - the bit from 2:00 to 2:44 reaches Propaganda-like levels of epic beauty to me, but without the teutonic weightiness - the way that 3-note cello-like bass phrase gradually becomes more prominent, and I'm always left aching for it to keep going or EXPLODE into something; the 15-16 second vocal stretch from 3:24 to 3:39

'Wild And Lonely' - come on, tell me that these piano chords aren't just gorgeous... and that final plaintive vocal of 'god it's only me...'
(there is a plausible case to be made that the rhythm sounds are over-processed throughout this track, but i find they don't distract enough to spoil the melancholy mood)

hope this helps Ned...