taylor swift iridescent smoke bombs thread 2019 - lover

dear god

'church of women' actually ;)

if taytay or antonoff have heard xtc's much-maligned final album i'd be fairly amazed tho

anyway

this album...sounds...much better than other taylor swift albums i've heard, can't hate the music (even if her persona, exemplified by the very end of the opening track, still irritates me)

so cut the HEADLIGHTS
summers a KNIFE
im always waiting for you just to cut to the bone
devils roll the DICE
angels roll their EYES
and if i bleed youll be the last to knoww

if taytay or antonoff have heard xtc's much-maligned final album i'd be fairly amazed tho

― imago, Monday, September 2, 2019 9:38 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it would surprise me zero percent to learn antonoff is a xtc fanboy

though the opening track is not antonoff lol

so cut the HEADLIGHTS
summers a KNIFE
im always waiting for you just to cut to the bone
devils roll the DICE
angels roll their EYES
and if i bleed youll be the last to knoww

"You Need To Calm Down" I've warmed to, "ME!" remains a rubber donut, and "Daylight" is a weak closer -- a limper "New Year's Day."

Album closers for me: Long Live > Begin Again > Our Song > New Year's Day (these 4 are all really good and I suppose could be interchangeable depending on the mood) > Change > Clean (I just really love Change) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daylight

“bad blood,” which i still struggle through, at least it didn’t exactly become a world-blanketing hit

Bad blood is still a clunker to me, too. It's sad that for many people, that's what comes to their minds when they think of Swift.

“clean” is her best closer, real heads know

i've reached 'london boy'

if she names anywhere south of the thames i'll give it a pass

ok anywhere other than brixton ffs

“daylight”’s chorus has an ebbing quality to it that reminds me of jimmy eat world and the bridge is among the best on the record. it’s a very “this is the closing song on the album” closer and thus feels kind of obviously constructed toward that end but i think it’s gorgeous, brings the album around to this final gradually-dying shimmer

also it’s much better than “change” come on

Yeah I have a jelly-like soft spot for "Change" I guess. It was such a shock back then to hear a teenage girl writing such anthemic, anachronistic guitar solos, I never really recovered.

the version of "the archer" on live lounge is amazing

The verses on 'Death By a Thousand Cuts' mostly just sounds inspired by Young Thug / bop-music/other singsongy hiphop? It's good :)

the version of "the archer" on live lounge is amazing

― J0rdan S., Monday, September 2, 2019 12:58 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

the whole thing is really great but yeah “the archer” and the rearranged “holy ground” stop time

the chorus melody of "the man" sounds like it was thought up by danielle haim. that's about its only redeeming feature.

^^

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:08 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol i am only on my second listen of this and I immediately thought the same thing. I'd say it's pretty much true of the whole song.

The songwriting credits for this album are so revealing:

1. The songs attributed to Swift alone ("Lover", "Cornelia Street", "Daylight") are three of the best.

2. The songs involving Little ("The Man", "Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince", "You Need To Calm Down", "Me!") range between the worst and (at best) non-essential, making him Swift's worst foil since Tedder/Zancanella.

3. There's really nothing to distinguish Antonoff co-writes from Bell/Feeney co-writes (and the production approaches are also not readily distinguishable).

Consider the above together and it suggests that the album's success largely rises or falls on the extent to which Swift's collaborators got out of her way.

Cf. Reputation where everything was a co-write and there didn't really seem to be so much of a correlation between songwriting credits and sound/quality.

i hate accidents except when we went from friends to this uh huh

that’s right

darlin

the album's success largely rises or falls on the extent to which Swift's collaborators got out of her way

I hadn't realized "Cornelia" was credited only to her. But this statement sort of applies to most of her career, I think. I'm pretty sure she's far better at songwriting than all the partners she's had over the years. Maybe Martin was, but on a different thing. And I'm not sure he enhanced her strenghts.

I think I'm warming to "Miss Americana". It felt like a show stopper at first, but it reminds me of Springsteen and I like Swift when she goes that way.

I'm pretty sure she's far better at songwriting than all the partners she's had over the years. Maybe Martin was, but on a different thing. And I'm not sure he enhanced her strenghts..

I think this is correct, but I also think the album credits have never revealed it so starkly before - unless you count Speak Now which had no co-writes.

In part that has been because she delivered great songs with collaborators that both revealed her own writing strengths while also seemingly leaning into the approaches that the co-writer brought to the table.

Whereas at this point it sounds like she is at the same stage with Antonoff in particular that she had reached with Chapman by Speak Now: she can write songs on her own geared to take advantage of his production approach.

In part that has been because she delivered great songs with collaborators that both revealed her own writing strengths while also seemingly leaning into the approaches that the co-writer brought to the table.

Yeah, 100% on that. I really, really liked "1989" but, to me, it mostly felt like a collection of very successful exercises in style. Even though I missed the songwriting on "Speak Now" and "Red", which is somewhat back in "Lover", back then I found this very admirable and revealing of her abilities, and I still do. And it was, very possibly, a much-needed break from diaristic-Swift; I loved Red, but it felt like she was just about to hit a wall.

Yeah, it's clear that, like Aretha or Madonna, she's Taylor Swift no matter whom she writes songs with. At moments the collaborators make her more herself than when she writes by herself.

"lover" reminds me of "heart of stone"

"the archer" reminds me of "true colors"

it's clear that, like Aretha or Madonna, she's Taylor Swift no matter whom she writes songs with.

Isn't that true of pretty much every big pop star, from Beyonce to Rihanna to Ariana Grande to ... Pink or Kacey Musgraves or whomever?

really into false god now

I went to the show last night! It was my first time seeing her. As I'd said upthread, it was at a small venue, 2000 people, and we were about 10m from the stage. I don't have much to say that you probably can't read anywhere else. She mostly stuck to bangers, plus an acoustic interlude where she played, solo, songs she emphasized she'd written herself: "Death By A Thousand Cuts", "Cornelia Street", "The Man". They brought out a piano and did an amazing "All Too Well", with the band coming in periodically, then went right into "Red" and "Daylight", again on piano. The band was fun to watch; the guitarist with the feathered mullet mugged a bunch & I lolled. "Style" was another highlight. I'm still deaf from the screaming of the fans, who sang every word louder than mic'ed Taylor (I think maybe her mic was pretty low in the mix though, and she rarely belted anything). Tons of pro-looking cameras so this show might get released eventually. You can see the setlist if you want.

hang your head low
in the glow
of the vending machine
i'm not dying!

next year she'll be coming to Portugal for the first time. I still can't believe I'll see her live.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for more South American dates so much I can barely type.

Xgau put his review online yesterday: https://robertchristgau.substack.com . I've always liked his vision of Swift, and this is no exception.

"Lana Del Rey: Norman Fucking Rockwell! (Interscope) American studies paper on the late ‘60s fused with soft-core porn whose erotic charge is the deeper part of the synthesis (“Hope is a dangerous thing to for a woman like me to have—but I have it,” “Love Song”) ***"

Yeah maybe but I'll be fucked if I'm going to pay for 'old horny man' reviews like this.

I didn't get the horny vibes, but I just checked the rest of his reviews on LDR and boy he has never taken her seriously, at all.

It’s not just that Swift knows even more about having lovers, the concept here, than she does about being a star, the concept of Reputation.

reputation isn't rly about "being a star". unfamous people get talked about too. it's a concept calculated to foreground taylor swift's most canonically unpopular qualities but the experiences it's about are probably unavoidable for any of the "millions of women who manage serial relationships", so i think that album was for them as much as this one. i mean if you can't relate to getaway car it's because you haven't had enough rebound sex, not because you're not a pop star.

i do prefer this album and despite what strikes me as outrageous recycling of antonoffisms on "cruel summer" think that on that and the title track and "the archer" and "cornelia street" and... gosh a lot of it she seems to have relaxed back into her talent after successfully whiteknuckling the pop transition.

and the concept of lover is not "having lovers"

It's not just that Swift knows even more about the things that you do on a mattress, the concept here, than she does about being an actress,

should have mentioned "i think he knows" in that list, sometimes feels like the most complete version of neo-swift here.

yes! completely agreed. even the ungainly bridge is charming

lyrical smile
indigo eyes
hand on my thigh
we can handle the sparks
i'll drive

er we can follow*

Xgau suxxx

i am genuinely uninterested in what he thinks about any woman

gosh a lot of it she seems to have relaxed back into her talent after successfully whiteknuckling the pop transition.

This is a nice take/turn of phrase, btw

i am genuinely uninterested in what he thinks about any woman

he's probably better on women then Marcus but that's maybe only due to the latter's being more pitched at dissertation and deep beliefs level, and it's not to say that Xgau is anywhere near "good" on discussing women and the music they make.

"I Think He Knows" is one of my keepers these days.

as for Xgau, I'm surprised you guys have focused on the first lines and not his usual obsession with serial monogamy and how "this one’s for them.

With X-Gau I do put some value in going with the A when most established critics wouldn't really care. I like the risks he's taken through the years in assessing her; putting her in the same level of Merrit in his Red review, tongue-in-cheek as it was, would be an example. I'm not sure his take on music made by women in general is one of his strengths, but when it comes to Swift, most of the positive remarks he's made on her music are closer to the things I personally cherish in her work than any positive remark people like Petridis or Sheffield would make. I suppose the bar is really low with this guys, but still.

Regarding concepts; I really should go back to "reputation" as it's not as fresh in my mind as the others, but even though it's not entirely about "being a star", the notion of the public eye in that album is not something to be dismissed either. Unfamous people get talked about too, right, but the feeling I got back then was she was discussing a different level of criticism and observation; one that went beyond gossip or even the "Youtube comments section" chat of "Mean". And maybe that was coming mostly from the artwork, videos and a somewhat more oppresive sounding production rather than the songs themselves, but it was still a component that was there. Such level of oppression was something I can understand and even feel for her, but also put it a lot more out of my reach than the rest of her efforts.

I really love "I think he knows", it reminds me of "All you had to do was stay" in its commitment for the hook.

Regarding concepts; I really should go back to "reputation" as it's not as fresh in my mind as the others, but even though it's not entirely about "being a star", the notion of the public eye in that album is not something to be dismissed either.

yeah uh the album is called Reputation (and I know the title encompasses ever definition).