Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

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The s/t is 50 years old today and, by extension, metal as a whole.

romanesque architect (pomenitul), Thursday, 13 February 2020 09:42 (four years ago) link

Dayum

calstars, Thursday, 13 February 2020 16:13 (four years ago) link

sabby birthday

Homegrown Georgia speedster Ladd McConkey (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 13 February 2020 16:25 (four years ago) link

greatest debut album?

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 13 February 2020 16:40 (four years ago) link

Kory Grow's deep dive on the album from yesterday, interviewing all four band members and more folks besides, is essential

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/black-sabbath-debut-album-heavy-metal-origin-interview-949070/

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 13 February 2020 16:41 (four years ago) link

xp hmm, there are a few other serious contenders from that era (including In the Court of the Crimson King), but it's definitely up there.

And thanks for the link, Ned, I only read the other RS piece about their not-so-tacit jazziness.

romanesque architect (pomenitul), Thursday, 13 February 2020 16:44 (four years ago) link

That hi hat / ride cymbal swing motif can also be heard on the Wheels of Confusion intro and that song also evidences his behind the beat playing during the verses

calstars, Thursday, 13 February 2020 23:13 (four years ago) link

Further RS piece specifically about the cover art.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/black-sabbath-cover-art-keef-keith-macmillan-interview-951578/

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 13 February 2020 23:42 (four years ago) link

Enjoyed reading both of those articles, thanks.

Great article on the cover art of those first four albums... what a run!

You have seen the heavy groups (morrisp), Friday, 14 February 2020 05:25 (four years ago) link

(...and man, did their covers go seriously downhill afterwards, lol)

You have seen the heavy groups (morrisp), Friday, 14 February 2020 05:28 (four years ago) link

Lol

Never Say Die album art is fantastic

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 14 February 2020 13:36 (four years ago) link

Paranoid artwork is terrible

it's after the end of the world (Matt #2), Friday, 14 February 2020 13:50 (four years ago) link

yeah it sucks shit but it's iconic shit, i can't imagine it with another cover

Homegrown Georgia speedster Ladd McConkey (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 14 February 2020 14:07 (four years ago) link

Bingo. That said, maybe the original album title, War Pigs would have offset its awfulness somewhat.

romanesque architect (pomenitul), Friday, 14 February 2020 14:11 (four years ago) link

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

ncxkd, Monday, 24 February 2020 00:22 (four years ago) link

No I'm good

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, 24 February 2020 00:33 (four years ago) link

Huh? Ward is awesome.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 February 2020 00:35 (four years ago) link

One of my favorite lines of inquiry. Not.

Something Super Stupid Cupid (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 February 2020 00:37 (four years ago) link

Ward is like Ginger Baker if Ginger Baker were as good as Ginger Baker thought he was.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 February 2020 01:02 (four years ago) link

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

calstars, Monday, 24 February 2020 01:36 (four years ago) link

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 24 February 2020 01:40 (four years ago) link

Thinking about Sabbath with Hal Blaine on drums now and it's doing my head in

the punk wars are over and prog rock won (Matt #2), Monday, 24 February 2020 01:45 (four years ago) link

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.
this. Yes I would

calstars, Monday, 24 February 2020 01:59 (four years ago) link

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

― calstars, Sunday, February 23, 2020 8:36 PM bookmarkflaglink

The idea that Sabbath would be better with a jazz drummer is lol

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, 24 February 2020 03:12 (four years ago) link

I believe this kind of substitution thought experiment is often applied to one of Ozzy's favorite bands.

Something Super Stupid Cupid (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 February 2020 03:17 (four years ago) link

I mean, seriously, if I thought Bill Ward sucked I would say so, but he's great, not just for Sabbath, but, well, especially for Sabbath. "The Wizard" for life, and you want jazz, that song swiiiiiiings.

(Elvin would be cool, too, but only if they replaced everyone else with the line-up of Sharrock's "Ask the Ages.")

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 February 2020 03:24 (four years ago) link

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

calstars, Monday, 24 February 2020 04:09 (four years ago) link

wtf dude

brimstead, Monday, 24 February 2020 04:11 (four years ago) link

Man if only those Led Zepplelin albums had Michael Angelo Batio instead

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, 24 February 2020 04:12 (four years ago) link

Always thought Fun House would’ve sounded better with someone more like Victor Wooten on bass.

brimstead, Monday, 24 February 2020 04:21 (four years ago) link

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

thewufs, Monday, 24 February 2020 04:42 (four years ago) link

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

thewufs, Monday, 24 February 2020 04:43 (four years ago) link

Sorry double post

thewufs, Monday, 24 February 2020 04:43 (four years ago) link

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

romanesque architect (pomenitul), Monday, 24 February 2020 09:08 (four years ago) link

i guess technically it's a great challops, in that it is extremely challenging and requires you to re-examine your preconceptions

however, my preconceptions remain unchanged in this case because bill ward is a fucking monster and iommi/butler/ward are one of the greatest instrumental trios in rock

Generous Grant for Stepladder Creamery (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 24 February 2020 09:10 (four years ago) link

For maximum impact, said challop should have opened with ‘Nothing against Ozzy, I love the guy...’ Scat Sabbath ftw.

romanesque architect (pomenitul), Monday, 24 February 2020 09:14 (four years ago) link

some people say my love, can it be true?
skibadeebeebopbow
skibadeeboo

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, 24 February 2020 14:53 (four years ago) link

calstars at 10:09 23 Feb 20

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

EMPTY SPACE IS IMPORTANT

this is one for the ages, lord I wish Billy Cobham was endlessly jacking off paradiddles throughout the Wizard

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 24 February 2020 14:57 (four years ago) link

Iommi was great but imagine if they had a guitar player with five complete fingers!

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, 24 February 2020 14:58 (four years ago) link

maybe just go listen to jazz ffs

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Monday, 24 February 2020 14:59 (four years ago) link

best Black Sabbath lineup:
Paul Chambers
Gene Krupa
Kenny Burrell
Ronnie James Dio

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 24 February 2020 15:03 (four years ago) link

Lol. Also
maybe just go listen to jazz ffs
^this

Something Super Stupid Cupid (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 February 2020 15:07 (four years ago) link

Iommi was great but imagine if they had a guitar player with five complete fingers!

if iommi's industrial accident was more serious he could have been a django-level jazz player, missed opportunity on his part imo

Generous Grant for Stepladder Creamery (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 24 February 2020 15:13 (four years ago) link

calstars at 10:09 23 Feb 20

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

EMPTY SPACE IS IMPORTANT

this is one for the ages, lord I wish Billy Cobham was endlessly jacking off paradiddles throughout the Wizard
Ward plays all over that empty space though (somewhat awkwardly)

calstars, Monday, 24 February 2020 17:33 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

can we get the board description changed please?

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 21 May 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link

You have my blessing.

pomenitul, Thursday, 21 May 2020 19:21 (four years ago) link


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