Helicopter Helicopter and Schampout are the songs I'd happily lose on Perhaps. I still love the album despite those flaws. When I first got the album, I was obsessed with the second half and would often just play that side of my vinyl copy. I'm still in awe of that ridiculous string arrangement on The Stranger In Your Voice and Breakfast should have been a number one single.
I mostly agree on the assessment of The Glamour Chase. Despite Billy obviously playing it safe on those last few Associates albums, I love that he still did things like Country Boy. As you say Ned, it's a truly bizarre choice that seems like a rare flash of inspiration from Billy at that point. Empires Of Your Heart is the standout on there. I still think it's one of Billy's most stunning moments.
Funnily enough, I just played Outernational the other day probably for the first time in 10 years. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Definitely a step up from Wild & Lonely -- an album I try not to think about too much. Baby should have been a hit.
― kitchen person, Thursday, 13 February 2020 15:27 (four years ago) link
If Adele recorded Baby it would probably end up being her biggest and most inescapable hit
― PaulTMA, Thursday, 13 February 2020 15:55 (four years ago) link
Sharing a tweet of mine to share a screenshot:
Learned today that Cherry Red's getting out a reissue/recompilation of Billy Mackenzie's later solo material in the offing. Works for me! pic.twitter.com/HzOS9bE1lF— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) December 29, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 23:45 (two years ago) link
Awesome, I’ve wanted to hear those in full for a while.
― Naive Teen Idol, Sunday, 2 January 2022 22:38 (two years ago) link
And here's the preorder link for it
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/billy-mackenzie-satellite-life-satellite-life-recordings-1995-1996-3cd
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 4 February 2022 23:42 (two years ago) link
Woah, that looks fantastic! I've wanted to hear McArthur’s Son ever since I read The Glamour Chase 20 plus years ago. He makes it sound great.
― kitchen person, Saturday, 5 February 2022 02:52 (two years ago) link
sund4r being very extremely wrong abt the associates has an upside: i have been listening to them all day
― mark s, Friday, 2 September 2022 12:26 (two years ago) link
my theory which is mine: they slid a little out of institutional memory bcz they didn't generate much good writing (morley's is mostly the fizz of his high enthusiasm and plus no great music writer is patchier anyway lol) and they didn't generate much good writing bcz they're very hard to write about -- and *that's a mark of how good they are*
i don't think musicality is ineffable but i do think it's highly evasive and that we often write abt anything but (even when it looks like we're doing striahgt-up musicology) and musicians that slip this leash are worth paying attention to precisely bcz of the challenge they present
― mark s, Friday, 2 September 2022 12:43 (two years ago) link
thread that garnered few non-baffled responses lol: Can a music matter if its fans don't especially want to read about it?
― mark s, Friday, 2 September 2022 12:44 (two years ago) link
i'll have a drink and then not phone my brother up
― seo layer (Noodle Vague), Friday, 2 September 2022 12:46 (two years ago) link
bap de la bap!
― mark s, Friday, 2 September 2022 12:50 (two years ago) link
The first two records are a good example of how baffling experiencing them in real time must have been. Can’t think of a stylistic evolution quite like going from The Affectionate Punch to the Fourth Drawer Down singles to Sulk in only two years. And they are all magnificent!I love Perhaps but McKenzie and Rankine were a real team.
― sweating like Cathy *aaaack* (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 2 September 2022 13:33 (two years ago) link
Paperhouse haunts me, such a beautiful tune. Love Billy’s scat breakdown at the end, lest it get too majestic.
― sweating like Cathy *aaaack* (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 2 September 2022 13:35 (two years ago) link
Excellent approach. And yeah, very hard to write about. I've done my best over time but it's hard to approach the ineffable, really.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 September 2022 14:57 (two years ago) link
"my theory which is mine: they slid a little out of institutional memory bcz they didn't generate much good writing (morley's is mostly the fizz of his high enthusiasm and plus no great music writer is patchier anyway lol) and they didn't generate much good writing bcz they're very hard to write about -- and *that's a mark of how good they are*"
The second part is a very good point. I grew up listening to a lot of music that simply wasn't written about, because what was there to say about it? How could the typical NME / Melody Maker writer cover Lifeforms or 76:14? What would they say? "It sounds good and I like the noises". A bit of Googling suggests that Melody Maker really liked 76:13, but my hunch is that whatever coverage it had was dwarfed, utterly dwarfed - that's not offensive, by the way - dwarfed by the same newspaper's coverage of Martin Rossiter, because he was good for a quote and his lyrics could be unpicked. He worked on the page.
But I disagree with the first point, because I don't think pop music writing really translates into a legacy. Viz Martin Rossiter, who isn't written about nowadays. There has to be at least a couple of crowd-pleasing hits. Bands develop a legacy because their music catches the ear of people on the radio and before long "Weather With You" and "Somewhere in My Heart" are radio staples, because they're crowd-pleasing hits. Or alternatively they develop a following on YouTube.
The Associates' problem is that they had a particular style. Their songs have a swoopy, almost jazzy feel. They don't have punchy, simple melodies, they feel tailored for McKenzie's voice, so they swoop. That's the best word I can think of. Their singles (I'm not familiar with the albums) have swoopy, meandering melodies, which is great because it's unexpected but doesn't lend itself to penetrating people's skulls.
― Ashley Pomeroy, Friday, 2 September 2022 22:02 (two years ago) link
Alan Rankine did a really good C86 show interview a few months back
― Stevolende, Friday, 2 September 2022 23:31 (two years ago) link
Can I point out here that the Associates did actually have hit singles. And "Sulk" was a Top 10 album.
― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Friday, 2 September 2022 23:56 (two years ago) link
Despite everything that's ever been written, Perhaps is a blindingly good album
― PaulTMA, Saturday, 3 September 2022 00:23 (two years ago) link
I started listening to The Associates because of sreynolds' Rip It Up and Start Again, but I don't remember what he wrote there that made them sound so compelling.
― eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Saturday, 3 September 2022 01:51 (two years ago) link
Lol, glad to inspire a revive. Tbf I only heard one song once in the context of a thread about a different band.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 3 September 2022 01:58 (two years ago) link
Go & Listen to the first 3 lps . Especially the 2nd 2 I think. Sulk is so great, 4th Drawer Down hangs together pretty well for a compilation of singles tracks. & the first one is pretty fantastic too. Just difficult to rival Sulk cos that is something else. & everything got expanded a couple of years ago.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 3 September 2022 08:37 (two years ago) link
But there are Van der Graaf records.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 3 September 2022 11:57 (two years ago) link
I always flick between Sulk and Fourth Drawer Down as favourite. And seemingly so does everyone I know.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Saturday, 3 September 2022 13:11 (two years ago) link
I prefer the first album but, then, you don't know me.
― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 September 2022 13:24 (two years ago) link
arent you tom d of ilx?
― mark s, Saturday, 3 September 2022 13:40 (two years ago) link
That's just a nasty rumour.
― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 September 2022 13:45 (two years ago) link
First album is amazing, it arouses emotions in me that I didn’t know I had.
― sweating like Cathy *aaaack* (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 3 September 2022 15:47 (two years ago) link
Associates are not so far from a glam/post-punk Peter Hammill/VDGG - complex melodies, dramatic vocals, harsh textures, creating a "sound-world" as much as a band performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Hccc3xqeA
What I said in another thread about Killing Joke combining sardonic attitude with hysteria applies to this band too, with an extra dash of camp.
― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 3 September 2022 18:19 (two years ago) link
I think my favorite moment of theirs may be the close to Skipping where Rankine is playing that glacial roller rink synthesizer line and Billy just starts belting out “SKIP SKIP/SKIP SKIP SKIP /SKIP SKIP/SKIP SKIP SKIP /SKIPPING!?!?” It literally gives me chills.
― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 24 September 2022 19:16 (two years ago) link
The four chords they repeat at the end of the song are like a stairway rising up into nowhere.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 26 September 2022 17:15 (two years ago) link
Cleaning house to The Affectionate Punch🧼🕺
― willem, Friday, 21 October 2022 13:48 (one year ago) link
cleaning Paper House?
― dan selzer, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:07 (one year ago) link
Don't forget to clean the mattress downstairs full of brown peppered holes.
― Fronted by a bearded Phil Collins (Tom D.), Friday, 21 October 2022 14:10 (one year ago) link
Cleaning house to _The Affectionate Punch_🧼🕺
― big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Friday, 21 October 2022 14:14 (one year ago) link
wrong album obv, and also just an affectionate punch
― big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Friday, 21 October 2022 14:15 (one year ago) link
Don't forget to tidy up the fourth drawer down.
― giraffe, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:20 (one year ago) link
Amused as always by y'all ❤️
― willem, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:29 (one year ago) link
After all the cleaning, you'll be sweaty and dirty so you'll have a shower...
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 October 2022 14:53 (one year ago) link
zed is the black sheep of the alphabet.
wait am I doing this right?
― dan selzer, Friday, 21 October 2022 16:27 (one year ago) link
Are you cleaning your property girl?
― Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 21 October 2022 22:52 (one year ago) link
Just read that Alan Rankine died yesterday.
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 13:00 (one year ago) link
Yeah, news spreading rapidly. A damn shame, too young and he was such a vocal supporter of the band’s legacy and Billy’s genius. So strange to think that the remaining core musicians that created _Sullk_ are Michael Dempsey and Martha Ladly.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 13:55 (one year ago) link
On FB a few years ago, there were some whisperings that he and Dempsey were considering a tour with another singer, possibly David McAlmont. Clearly nothing came of it, but I would have been OK with checking it out.
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 14:43 (one year ago) link
It would have made a lovely tribute show, and McAlmont did work with Mackenzie in the years before the latter's passing. Ah well.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 15:12 (one year ago) link
Oh fuck no! RIP Alan, thanks for the beautiful music
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Tuesday, 3 January 2023 17:09 (one year ago) link
RIP Alan Rankine, creator of amongst the most joyous magnificent pop music of all time.No Associates = No Ladytron. 💔https://t.co/lLujdh3ucf— Ladytron (@LadytronMusic) January 3, 2023
― StanM, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 18:34 (one year ago) link
very, very sad news. lots of people i know locally were taught by him and all, without exception, found him an incredibly inspiring human being. he'd really go above and beyond to help people out.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 22:52 (one year ago) link
I heard a couple of pretty great podcast interviews with Rankine a few months ago. I think this was one of them, think there was at least one otherhttps://open.spotify.com/episode/2NHxKyjHbAevQBWjFpy1Y6?si=1f287889b2e54345
would have been great to get a memoir from him.
Did love his instrument playing on the Associates material. Wish there was more elsewhere, not sure if his solo material was anywhere near as good. He seemed to touch on Krautrock among a number of other things in the textures on that Associates stuff anyway
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 23:23 (one year ago) link
he was quite often a 'talking head' on scottish televsion music programmes and always had the best stories.
he was also such a phenomenal producer and i wonder if he was the first person in the world ever to distort an 808 kick drum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnHaXrjjWEQ
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 23:40 (one year ago) link
as much as i loved billy's voice, their eponymous instrumental was always a favourite of mine. what a great chuggy groove:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtC8zVAsJa8
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 00:07 (one year ago) link