Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

Never Say Die album art is fantastic

Paranoid artwork is terrible

yeah it sucks shit but it's iconic shit, i can't imagine it with another cover

Bingo. That said, maybe the original album title, War Pigs would have offset its awfulness somewhat.

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

No I'm good

Huh? Ward is awesome.

One of my favorite lines of inquiry. Not.

Ward is like Ginger Baker if Ginger Baker were as good as Ginger Baker thought he was.

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.

Thinking about Sabbath with Hal Blaine on drums now and it's doing my head in

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

― calstars, Sunday, February 23, 2020 8:36 PM bookmarkflaglink

The idea that Sabbath would be better with a jazz drummer is lol

I believe this kind of substitution thought experiment is often applied to one of Ozzy's favorite bands.

I mean, seriously, if I thought Bill Ward sucked I would say so, but he's great, not just for Sabbath, but, well, especially for Sabbath. "The Wizard" for life, and you want jazz, that song swiiiiiiings.

(Elvin would be cool, too, but only if they replaced everyone else with the line-up of Sharrock's "Ask the Ages.")

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

wtf dude

Man if only those Led Zepplelin albums had Michael Angelo Batio instead

Always thought Fun House would’ve sounded better with someone more like Victor Wooten on bass.

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

Sorry double post

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

i guess technically it's a great challops, in that it is extremely challenging and requires you to re-examine your preconceptions

however, my preconceptions remain unchanged in this case because bill ward is a fucking monster and iommi/butler/ward are one of the greatest instrumental trios in rock

For maximum impact, said challop should have opened with ‘Nothing against Ozzy, I love the guy...’ Scat Sabbath ftw.

some people say my love, can it be true?
skibadeebeebopbow
skibadeeboo

calstars at 10:09 23 Feb 20

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

EMPTY SPACE IS IMPORTANT

this is one for the ages, lord I wish Billy Cobham was endlessly jacking off paradiddles throughout the Wizard

Iommi was great but imagine if they had a guitar player with five complete fingers!

maybe just go listen to jazz ffs

best Black Sabbath lineup:
Paul Chambers
Gene Krupa
Kenny Burrell
Ronnie James Dio

Lol. Also
maybe just go listen to jazz ffs
^this

Iommi was great but imagine if they had a guitar player with five complete fingers!

if iommi's industrial accident was more serious he could have been a django-level jazz player, missed opportunity on his part imo

calstars at 10:09 23 Feb 20

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

EMPTY SPACE IS IMPORTANT

this is one for the ages, lord I wish Billy Cobham was endlessly jacking off paradiddles throughout the Wizard

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

You have my blessing.

I also want to say, having not checked in on this thread in a bit, reading the last dozen or so posts had me laughing until I cried, something that has not occurred for a long while, and certainly not in the last couple of months. It made me really appreciate the wit and love of music that i find here, and I thank you all for it.

Ward plays all over that empty space though (somewhat awkwardly)
― calstars, Monday, February 24, 2020 12:33 PM bookmarkflaglink

THEN IT'S NOT EMPTY SPACE

Well it would be, though, if Ward wasn’t playing

some people say my love, can it be true?
skibadeebeebopbow
skibadeeboo

― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, February 24, 2020 9:53 AM (five months ago) bookmarkflaglink

this made my day

best Black Sabbath lineup:
Paul Chambers
Gene Krupa
Kenny Burrell
Ronnie James Dio

https://wickedworld.net/

50th anniversary Paranoid reissue, with quad mix and two 1970 concert recordings.

hmm. Sorry the link didn't copy correctly

https://img.tmstor.es/blacksabbath/66276-fb02dbf164975e0193063b3874665474.jpg

This is the vinyl (read: overpriced and sonically inferior) version of a CD box that came out in 2016.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71TVIyDV3ML.jpg

You can trust Sabbath to keep on milking it

Paranoid 5LP Super Deluxe first two LPs feature the original album plus a Quadraphonic Mix.
The collection's final three LPs mark the official vinyl debut of two 1970 live performances. https://t.co/RxFLfHNSPm pic.twitter.com/5vjBkSLuPl

— BlackSabbath (@BlackSabbath) August 21, 2020

I'd like to hear the quadrophonic mix. But not enough to pay so much cash

I've heard the quad mix and it's groovy, but don't really see the point of "1974 Quad Mix of the album folded down to stereo". One of the things I dig about it is how it adds a bit of psychedelia: a guitars solo circles around the room, etc. I don't listen to 5.1 much but tend to prefer the "gimmicky" ones a bit more than those that just add a bit of tasteful atmosphere, though. (IIRC the quad mix was released as a 5.1 disc on one of the other numerous reissues of this record?)