Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

Thinking about Sabbath with Hal Blaine on drums now and it's doing my head in

I wouldn't want to hear Black Sabbath with Elvin Jones or Art Blakey on drums and neither would you.

They both lack precision and chops, I don’t see the shame in admitting that. They have other strengths

― calstars, Sunday, February 23, 2020 8:36 PM bookmarkflaglink

The idea that Sabbath would be better with a jazz drummer is lol

I believe this kind of substitution thought experiment is often applied to one of Ozzy's favorite bands.

I mean, seriously, if I thought Bill Ward sucked I would say so, but he's great, not just for Sabbath, but, well, especially for Sabbath. "The Wizard" for life, and you want jazz, that song swiiiiiiings.

(Elvin would be cool, too, but only if they replaced everyone else with the line-up of Sharrock's "Ask the Ages.")

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

wtf dude

Man if only those Led Zepplelin albums had Michael Angelo Batio instead

Always thought Fun House would’ve sounded better with someone more like Victor Wooten on bass.

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

Are people seriously litigating the merits of BILL WARD as a drummer - not even as a drummer, he’s no Max Roach, no shit and thanks for sharing - but as the drummer on those Sabbath records, here? GTFO forever

Sorry double post

Nothing against Ward, I love the guy, but imagine someone with true jazz chops on those extended instrumentals on the first album

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

i guess technically it's a great challops, in that it is extremely challenging and requires you to re-examine your preconceptions

however, my preconceptions remain unchanged in this case because bill ward is a fucking monster and iommi/butler/ward are one of the greatest instrumental trios in rock

For maximum impact, said challop should have opened with ‘Nothing against Ozzy, I love the guy...’ Scat Sabbath ftw.

some people say my love, can it be true?
skibadeebeebopbow
skibadeeboo

calstars at 10:09 23 Feb 20

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

EMPTY SPACE IS IMPORTANT

this is one for the ages, lord I wish Billy Cobham was endlessly jacking off paradiddles throughout the Wizard

Iommi was great but imagine if they had a guitar player with five complete fingers!

maybe just go listen to jazz ffs

best Black Sabbath lineup:
Paul Chambers
Gene Krupa
Kenny Burrell
Ronnie James Dio

Lol. Also
maybe just go listen to jazz ffs
^this

Iommi was great but imagine if they had a guitar player with five complete fingers!

if iommi's industrial accident was more serious he could have been a django-level jazz player, missed opportunity on his part imo

calstars at 10:09 23 Feb 20

The Wizard is a great example of a tune that would benefit from some precision and finesse. All that empty space in the verses

EMPTY SPACE IS IMPORTANT

this is one for the ages, lord I wish Billy Cobham was endlessly jacking off paradiddles throughout the Wizard

This is one of the worst challops I've read on ILM, and I fucking love challops.

You have my blessing.

I also want to say, having not checked in on this thread in a bit, reading the last dozen or so posts had me laughing until I cried, something that has not occurred for a long while, and certainly not in the last couple of months. It made me really appreciate the wit and love of music that i find here, and I thank you all for it.

Ward plays all over that empty space though (somewhat awkwardly)
― calstars, Monday, February 24, 2020 12:33 PM bookmarkflaglink

THEN IT'S NOT EMPTY SPACE

Well it would be, though, if Ward wasn’t playing

some people say my love, can it be true?
skibadeebeebopbow
skibadeeboo

― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Monday, February 24, 2020 9:53 AM (five months ago) bookmarkflaglink

this made my day

best Black Sabbath lineup:
Paul Chambers
Gene Krupa
Kenny Burrell
Ronnie James Dio

https://wickedworld.net/

50th anniversary Paranoid reissue, with quad mix and two 1970 concert recordings.

hmm. Sorry the link didn't copy correctly

https://img.tmstor.es/blacksabbath/66276-fb02dbf164975e0193063b3874665474.jpg

This is the vinyl (read: overpriced and sonically inferior) version of a CD box that came out in 2016.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71TVIyDV3ML.jpg

You can trust Sabbath to keep on milking it

Paranoid 5LP Super Deluxe first two LPs feature the original album plus a Quadraphonic Mix.
The collection's final three LPs mark the official vinyl debut of two 1970 live performances. https://t.co/RxFLfHNSPm pic.twitter.com/5vjBkSLuPl

— BlackSabbath (@BlackSabbath) August 21, 2020

I'd like to hear the quadrophonic mix. But not enough to pay so much cash

I've heard the quad mix and it's groovy, but don't really see the point of "1974 Quad Mix of the album folded down to stereo". One of the things I dig about it is how it adds a bit of psychedelia: a guitars solo circles around the room, etc. I don't listen to 5.1 much but tend to prefer the "gimmicky" ones a bit more than those that just add a bit of tasteful atmosphere, though. (IIRC the quad mix was released as a 5.1 disc on one of the other numerous reissues of this record?)

Never been much of a Dr. Martens guy, but… I kinda want this:

https://www.drmartens.com/uk/en_gb/collaborations/black-sabbath

https://i.imgur.com/KsVteid.png

Lovely lads

Bill Ward's tights on the cover of Sabotage were the beginning of the end. Or maybe the end of the beginning.

so here are some of my favorite versions of the black sabbath song "planet caravan". a singular tune in sabbath's catalog, yes?

rondellus
adeline
the anomanon
big blood
novilunio
darkside
moon duo
hula hi-fi

any other versions you rate highly, lmk. i guess there's mercury rev's version, but it doesn't seem to add much to the original?

oh and the lyrics to the early alternate version are _so bad_. thank god they floyded it up some.

Yeah PC is a singular vibe in their canon. I feel like they tried to revisit it to some extent via “solitiude...” I will always remember the first time I heard it, climbing up the stairs to my cousins room in his big house

I'll post this again, my attempt to make Sabbath a weird psych band

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6KAiYTobROEmgOk0uDMQJh?si=n_qOrOp4ThSewb2U_Z3k1Q&utm_source=copy-link

Supertzar? I guess it…doesn’t have drums

I guess by the time of Vol. 4, the Sabbath ballads like "Changes" were playing to the crowd more than the highly introverted quiet interludes on the earlier albums.

By contrast, "Planet Caravan" doesn't even sound like someone singing to themselves, it sounds like an unconscious act.

Picturing Ossie in the spotlight with a grand piano

"Here's a little number we like to call 'God Is Dead?'"