Grimes/Claire Boucher thread

Delete Forever sounds better w/repeated listens. I like that it's a slightly cut-up, uncanny valley, highly fraught take on this sort of song. It has seemingly generic parts but not a generic execution.

I would say from first listens that "My Name Is Dark" is easily the strongest song here (and one of her best)

but then I am pretty much the opposite of an audiophile.

― Tim F, Monday, February 24, 2020 2:12 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you're too big a get physical fan for this to be totally true lol

I like this on first listen, it holds my attention more than some of her previous stuff. "Violence" kind of sounds like a deconstructed version of Euasure's "Chains of Love"... that's my big insight/contribution for the day.

the Garbage lyric ref in "My Name Is Dark" ("stupid girl") seems like a nicely direct ref to the album's main era of inspiration.

but then I am pretty much the opposite of an audiophile.

― Tim F, Monday, February 24, 2020 2:12 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you're too big a get physical fan for this to be totally true lol

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 00:09 (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I suppose how it breaks down for me is that I am obsessed with arrangements but have never really cared about having high quality speakers, headphones etc, so I'm not typically offended by music which self-proclaimed audiophiles claim falls flat on those grounds.

I can definitely hear that this album's sound (esp. the percussion) feels both deliberately hollowed out and compressed, and I can see how this tends to reduce or interfere with the listener's ability to really appreciate the layering in real time, certainly on the first few listens (by way of example, some of the rhythm tracks are pretty complex, but they don't exactly call attention to themselves in that regard).

But this feels pretty consistent with the general approach on some of the back-half of Visions - something that may be obscured if one's recollection of that album reduces to like "Genesis" and "Oblivion".

Yeah there are def. some similarities to the production values of the first Garbage album (not the second).

I’ve seen a few reviews which have pretty amateurishly criticized this for not being a clear and focused assessment of the climate crisis when it seems obvious that the subject matter was more an inspiration and gave her a direction in ways that are not present in the lyrics vs her doing a Neil Young Monsanto Years thing.

One review I read criticized Darkseid for not having much in the way of lyrical content and quoted Grimes’ part as evidence......

Reading some of the takedowns and I think writers again should stop trying to treat lyrics as the whole truth of the matter and stop criticizing an album for what it’s not content wise vs what it is. Which still doesn’t make sense bc it feels like a progression from the more desolate sounding parts of Visions so you’d think people wouldn’t be shocked by how it sounds.

Yeah - the idea of dinging this album b/c the stated "concept" doesn't come thru is laughable (I mean, it doesn't, but who gaf... Grimes fans, I guess?)

also basically every concept album ever loses the thread midway through at best, why should Grimes be any different?

Yeah there are def. some similarities to the production values of the first Garbage album (not the second).

― Tim F, Monday, February 24, 2020 7:38 PM

I don't hear it at all. The first Garbage boasted a real clarity, and, just to be clear, I don't view "clarity" as a virtue. The back of this album reminds me of a denser, thicker Art Angels. Less replete with hooks, although you may count the distorted harmonies as hooks (I do). It is, however, foolish to discount listeners looking for a "Realiti" or "Flesh Without Blood." "You'll Miss Me When I'm Not Around" and "My Name Is Dark" come close, though.

I mostly meant in the way that the guitars and the electronics tend to bleed into another a lot, though some of the album tracks may be a better example of that than, like, "Queer" or something.

In my head I could imagine the third Curve album being an even closer reference point but other than the use of "Chinese Burn" on Buffy I haven't revisited that album in over twenty years.

have finally heard this album, which I generally like to really like but is definitely patchy in quality

I don't hear curve at all except maybe "you'll miss me when I'm not around," which is mixed the exact opposite as a curve song would be

I agree this sort of sounds like produced by Moby pre-play but I don’t agree it sounds like Garbage’s debut. That one actually sounds good.

This doesn’t sound like Garbage but it does sound like garbage

: >

There I made a joke.

I think it’s cool that contemporary artists are putting a new spin on that mid/late-‘90s sound; I personally feel like it never reached its full potential back in the actual era.

Heavy compression as aesthetic (as opposed to hamfisted mastering) has been a thing for years now - Oneohtrix, Arca, the first Twigs album etc etc. Sounds pureed and fused together into a veneer - this is definitely deliberate and it works here.

Sounds like shit when there's just one sound in the mix admittedly but that hardly ever happens here.

The last Holly Herndon, Yves Tumor, Chino Amobi...

Just realized there's a Deluxe Edition of MIss Anthropocene that adds "We Appreciate Power" + four alt. mixes of other album tracks.

Actually no, “So Heavy I Fell Through The Earth - Art Mix” is the strongest song here

It’s totally fair tho to not appreciate how it’s deployed ... like it’s been around enough to “get it” and still have it be ineffective

Nb I still think this album rules, I am just imagining alternate versions w different mixes

Just realized there's a Deluxe Edition of MIss Anthropocene that adds "We Appreciate Power" + four alt. mixes of other album tracks.

― Murdered-Out Highlander XLE (morrisp), Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:44 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Aha! What I was looking for

Call me a commercial sell out if you must but i prefer the algorithm mixes

It makes me laugh (in a good way) on "My Name Is Dark" when she sings, "...the girl who plays with fii-YAAAH"

eh i never want "my name is dark" to end so i can't agree xp

I must say, to go from this album to the new Soccer Mommy is like stepping out of a fabulous, confusing party after a couple drinks into someone's parlor for bubbly water.

Picked up the CD at lunch (to really appreciate the nuances of that heavy compression, lol); had to settle for the standard edition, cuz that’s all they’re selling :(

I don’t get that, why not max out the CD?

eh i never want "my name is dark" to end so i can't agree xp

― american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:04 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Was this to me? I just mean for the ones that have algorithm versions

yes, and "my name is dark" has an algorithm mix

wait did ai mix this and that’s why it sounds like ass? (tbc it’s actually good to not hear the difference between good and bad mixes as a music enjoyer, and some of the best
music ever sounds like shit)

Oh weird Apple Music did that thing where it hides the track from me on that one

Yeah idk why they made it shorter thats bad

LP version is 6-plus minutes shorter than the CD release. it lops a couple minutes off So Heavy, My Name is Dark, and IDORU. i'm glad i've got the vinyl but would prefer it to have the full length tracks. this album owns.

God, the d’n’b drop in “4ÆM” is such a massive pleasure... listening to this album is like blasting the world’s greatest RealAudio stream in 1997.

I don’t even care to try deciphering the levels of irony involved in her “choices” on these songs... I wouldn’t succeed, but it doesn’t even matter; it’s all equally funny/awesome/slamming whatever the intentions behind it.

the "algorithm mixes" are just basically radio edits i thought? with the "algorithm" referring to the shorter lengths being ideal for spotify playlists etc. instead of radio. i don't hear any other changes

the mixer was fired and replaced with a minimax program

Heavy compression as aesthetic (as opposed to hamfisted mastering) has been a thing for years now - Oneohtrix, Arca, the first Twigs album etc etc. Sounds pureed and fused together into a veneer - this is definitely deliberate and it works here.

Sounds like shit when there's just one sound in the mix admittedly but that hardly ever happens here.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:10 AM (twenty hours ago)

The last Holly Herndon, Yves Tumor, Chino Amobi...

― Matt DC, Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:13 AM (twenty hours ago)

This album sounds worse production wise than anything produced by any of those artists honestly (okay - Arca is guilty of some bad mixing with his early work and the first Twigs EP is def poor). Herndon's production is mostly outstanding - not even sure how she's even brought up here.

I am just a bit miffed at the regression of mix quality on this compared to her last few. She's progressively improved the quality of her sound over the years until this one. If it was her deliberate intention to put out an "amateurish" mix to create an atmosphere, okay - but I still don't like it. Shame, because the music deserves more.

I haven't listened to this album enough yet to know if I like it or not but 2 things are sure :
- I like it better than Art Angels
- IDORU is lovely and arguably her best song since Visions
(also lol the "Wonderwall" guitar in "Delete Forever")

2 tracks into my #firstlisten on bus ride home

surprised most of the discussion itt is about production being thin or lacking, i find it’s the songwriting that’s conspicuously absent. these songs are well produced but they sound like the rave in the matrix reloaded. track 1 prob worst grimes song since the pre-visions era, sounds like a parody or a fans attempt at a grimes song, the

song 3 (country)

liking this more. would fit on art angels

song 4 “violence”

much better. not sure why it takes 5 years between each album to make songs that are 15% gothier, but this ones pretty good

song 5

i think I’m starting to see what you guys are talking about re: production. pretty fun when the breaks come in but the mix is a little confusing/cluttered. this could smash with Art Angela style production. idg the singing in this, it’s just

6 new gods

didn’t make much of an impression. lots of reverb, maybe too much

7

sounds just like that one on art angels. she’s really smashing the sustain/reverb. great beat, chorus is v catchy too. i like the guitar riff at the end. this ones def a highlight

mostly this album is making me want to listen to art angels again so far. also it makes me want to play PlayStation 1

8 you’ll miss me

beat slaps right out the gate. kinda sounds like a charli xcx song (good). really good songwriting, another high light imho. don’t think it ranks w her best material but perhaps it’s too soon to tel

9 before fever

kinda sounds like chill wave mumblerap... p bad. chorus is an improvement

i kind of feel like she’s got a similar process as kanye where she intentionally fucks her album up last minute or rushes it to try and get that lightning in a bottle... there’s no way these tracks were fussed over for 5 years. art angels sounded so heavily crafted

10

drums are drenched in reverb... set them free

not sure if there’s another song on this album but I’m at my stop. overall pretty good album, glad i didn’t have high expectations of it, will maybe listen to it a couple more times

last song IDORU is actually mb the best, i was distracted

What is it specifically that people mean when they say the production or mix is bad? What are the problems with it? How is it amateurish? And how / where / on what / to what are people listening?

I don't listen in anywhere near like the way I used to 10 or 15 years ago, and I'm not atuned to latest trends like I almost was once upon a time, but I'm not hearing amateurishness here. I've bought the CD, ripped it to my server as FLAC files, and stuck it on my iPhone as 128aac files like I do with everything else. Listening is in the kitchen (off the server), in the livingroom (hi-fi), and out-and-about (Koss Portapros). Yes, there's loads of compression and reverb, yes the songs are way less strident and pop than Art Angels, but I'm not hearing anything here as 'wrong'.

I don’t hear anyone saying the mix is “amateurish” it’s obviously a purposeful choice?

The compression is an effect but also I do kind of wonder what the album wd be like with more “club mixes”

FWIW the algo mixes did sound to me like there was some eq tweaking but maybe when I was a/bing it I was jumping to wrong parts of the song cuz of edits ... “violence” is longer in the bonus tracks but I guess that’s the “club mix”

Octobeard describes the mix as amateurish about four posts ago.

I don’t think it’s amateurish, she’s proven she is a very apt producer and her aesthetic choices are very deliberate, following on Matt’s point, the comparison might be otm since I also dislike how Arca and OPN sound, I’d describe the sound as “sharp” and “angular”, I can see how some people might vibe to them but to me it’s stressful to endure for a ull album.

FKA Twigs and Holly Herndon I like and I don’t think sound like this (maybe FKA’s first EPs, her two albums sound very muscular to me as opposed to this hollow, sharp sound)

I don’t know if it makes much sense but I don’t know the technical way to describe it.

It's basically aggressive EQ and cavernous reverb, making everything sound like a cold warehouse. She knows exactly what she's doing, nothing remotely amateur in her production skills. viz: http://songexploder.net/grimes

idk the issues i have with the production are more about things like the way the drums on "idoru" sound very detached from the rest of the song and the way her voice is presented which is different enough from the previous albums to emphasise a lot of things i find really annoying.

"delete forever" is the only one where the compressed sound really doesn't work for me, it does just sound wrong and awkward to my ears.

I'm not talking about the quality of the production per se, I was specifically addressing the point about the use of compression. All the artists I mentioned have made better produced records than this, even when I don't like them as much (eg Arca).

i think "so heavy" is one of her best productions ever, really feels like you're being orbited by these glacial smears of sound

but again i don't get the complains about production/mixing regarding this record