Husker Du : Classic or Dud, Search and Destroy.

I agree that it's no Steely Dan, but stevie is right - my vinyl pressing of Zen Arcade sounds significantly better than my CD. And I say that as no sort of audiophile, but it's a vast improvement. I'm assuming the same might be said for the other SST albums, but I only have those on CD.

I suppose, but it's still shades of aggro blaaaarg. Like, I don't think the albums sound any worse than how all the, say, Minutemen or Sonic Youth or Dino Jr. or whatever albums on SST sound, they're all sort of limited by their, well, limitations. Compared, for the sake of then-contemporary frame of reference, to something like Mission of Burma, which was a lot more sophisticated in its studio conception and benefitted more from getting cleaned up.

I don't think Josh is wrong about this. I'm sure the transfers could be better, especially if they do it in DSD, and for my tastes, it needs some EQ to restore some muscle (bring down the treble and upper mids, nudge up the bass). But these are still lo-fi recordings, and there's only so much room for improvement. I guess some people may want it compressed into a congested mess, but that ain't for me.

Spot gonna Spot

There's a November 1987 rehearsal tape of them playing a bunch of post-Warehouse song ideas, some great stuff in there

I feel like we've gone into the CD vs LP thing here before, consensus is that the LPs are better

fify

I don't think the albums sound any worse than how all the, say, Minutemen or Sonic Youth or Dino Jr. or whatever albums on SST sound, they're all sort of limited by their, well, limitations.

I disagree there, tbh - Sister is a well-produced album recorded in a decent studio. And You're Living All Over Me on SST CD was flat and really shoddy - there was a two-second gap between Kracked and Sludgefeast! - wheras the Merge reissue sounded much, much better. Obviously there's only so much you could polish it, but there's still room for improvement. And I thought the Savage Young Du version of the Everything Falls Apart tracks sounded much better than that Warners reissue from the 90s.

There's a November 1987 rehearsal tape of them playing a bunch of post-Warehouse song ideas, some great stuff in there

oh yikes, where is that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV9RN5HEbxY

Though I'm not sure there's unreleased stuff there. All that comes to mind is "Now That You Know Me" (which Grant released) and ... "Gotta Lotta," which was a b-side? And something Greg sang, I think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJr6GIyUi80

I'll be real here, part of me wants these reissues because I think we are in a time where glorified reissues really help to cement a band's legacy (for better or worse, this is a whole different discussion about how valuable this really might be) and I cannot think of many '80s bands that deserve it more than them. I'm pissed that it couldn't have happened while Grant was still around. Not that Husker Du is some forgotten act or whatever, but I look at something like Matador's great Pavement reissue campaign, something that I think really contributed to the strength of their legacy right now.

And it's not like Bob is completely unafraid to look back, given his recent HUEG solo box set.

I cannot think of many '80s bands that deserve it more than them

*cough* MINUTEMEN *cough*

but yes, point taken and I agree

Thanks Josh!

Oh for sure, Minutemen are a close second in my book, now that The 'Mats has been covered.

The Minutemen are even more tricky because their catalog can feel confusing and sprawling to a newcomer.

You think? I think it's pretty well organized and accessible!

idk Politics Of Time and Ballot Result and all the weird singles and EPs do kind of confuse the straightforward Punch Line - Start Fires - Double Nickels - 3-Way-Tie narrative

It's accessible, but all the EPs and comps and singles felt really baffling when I first dove in.

lol xp

most of the warners era b-sides are not all that (although i do have a soft spot for 'all work and no play'), but i always thought this song was amazing, sounds like it could have been off 'torch of the mystics' or something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1OJo0oEf9g
Husker Du - Fattie

incredible, never even heard of that, thanks!

neverending drone and those waves of sound, so good!

Love that!

all the EPs and comps and singles felt really baffling when I first dove in

That's why the Post-Mersh series was such a gift; all the various EPs, plus one of their albums, on one CD.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71qa5jZckAL.jpg

So baffling pre-internet circa early 90s walking into a record shop and being like "I want to get into Minutemen, what's the best intro?", though (which is why my first was the not-very-satisfying 3-Way-Tie)

Yeah, I had the albums but I usually kept the Post-Mersh collections in the car. Are they out of print?

I think I posted this in the Savage Young Du thread but I ended up running into Terry Katzman at a bar before he passed and he said there's no way the SST reissues happen

They tried to get the masters from Ginn with the same lawyers who handles Meat Puppets and Dino, but apparently there was some particularly onerous details in their contact even worse than the others

He said obviously at a certain point money can make anything go away but didn't get the sense Mould (the only one with serious dough) wanted to spend that much when he's got his solo career

The way Grant put it to others (and, once, to me) was that Mould used that as leverage. That is, he was all for working that stuff out but he wanted a much bigger share of the rights in return, which Grant was not willing to give up. In the end it's all just a matter of will. I remember interviewing Dean Wareham once, years ago, and asking about the (then) out of print Galaxie 500 albums being stuck in legal limbo or whatever, and his response was essentially, um, no, I've got the masters, it was just a matter of getting around to re-releasing them.

The Post-Mersh comps were my introduction to the Minutemen, though there is also a 1998 comp called Introducing the Minutemen; I don’t own it so so idea if it keeps as much context as the others.

Where's the Savage Young Du thread?

At this point I’m more at peace with the way the SST stuff sounds - I do think they are the worst sounding of the big bands at the label - but there’s a charm there I guess coupled with the whole limitations as aesthetic thing

I don’t see why something couldn’t be done for the Warners stuff; they sound awful for what were their big major label statements and sonically, I’m often left wondering - why even make the leap to WB? There were plenty of albums on independent labels in that 86/87 period that sound better than those two

the perfect Minutemen intro is actually the cassette-only release My First Bells, forgot about that one!

https://www.discogs.com/Minutemen-My-First-Bells-1980-83/release/1043613

ums that's a bummer abt that Katzman story, but vmic for Ginn unfortunately

NickB, great post. I'd never heard that b-side.

glad you like it! i love it when they do that more textural stuff

I sincerely appreciated your replies a few months ago when I was fishing around for info on the proto-"Isn't Anything" vibes on the bridge of "No Reservations".

ah, that's nice of you to say so! :)

going back to terry katzman, does anyone have any thoughts or feelings about the rest of the reflex records catalogue?

Hüsker Dü - Statues (7") Reflex A, 1981
Various - Barefoot And Pregnant (Cass, Comp) Reflex B, 1982
Various - Kitten Kompilation (Cass, Comp) Reflex C, 1982
Hüsker Dü - Everything Falls Apart (12") REFLEX D, 1983
Rifle Sport - Voice Of Reason ‎(LP, Album) Reflex E, 1983
Man Sized Action- Claustrophobia ‎(LP) Reflex F, 1983
Final Conflict - Final Conflict ‎(7") REFLEX G, 1983
Hüsker Dü - Metal Circus (EP) REFLEX G, 1983
Otto's Chemical Lounge - Otto's Chemical Lounge (7", EP) REFLEX H, 1983
Ground Zero - Ground Zero (LP, Album) Reflex I, 1984
Articles Of Faith - Give Thanks (Album) REFLEX J, 1984
Man Sized Action - Five Story Garage (LP) Reflex K, 1984
Minutemen - "Tour-Spiel" EP (7", EP) REFLEX L, 1985
Ground Zero - Pink (Album) REFLEX M, 1985

Give Thanks (and all earlier AOF) totally fucking rules, haven't heard any of the others

not really intimately familiar with any of those bands. i did buy a live rifle sport records many years ago, but couldn't really get into it. i know of man sized action because one of the guys in them went on to a band called dragnet who i really like. also future slint producer brian paulson was in them

xp gonna check that one

avoid any post-1985 AOF and you'll be fine :)

seriously, their early stuff (that was remixed and remastered for the Core release, also partly available on vinyl reissues w/original mixes) is some of my alltime favorite Midwestern USHC which is saying a lot

Speaking of Katzman I was once talking to him about Husker and I repeated the old saw abt "well the records don't sound great" and he looked me dead in the eye and said "those records sound EXACTLY how they wanted them to sound"

The second Man Sized Action record is way better than the first

haha yes I remember you saying that earlier in one of these threads re: Husker sound

Various - Barefoot And Pregnant (Cass, Comp) Reflex B, 1982

the copy I heard of this was pretty bad sound quality, think this is mostly demos/live stuff of hardcore bands (unless the copy was just bad) - like one of the Loud Fast Rules songs on it though

Final Conflict - Final Conflict ‎(7") REFLEX G, 1983

I like this, I've got a reissue of this single. iirc Bob Mould produced it? decent hardcore punk. there was another band called Final Conflict from California (who I also like) but this isn't them, this band was from Minnesota.

Minutemen - "Tour-Spiel" EP (7", EP) REFLEX L, 1985

this is a bit throw-away, it's all live covers, it's on that Post Mersh Vol 3 CD

also agree with sleeve about that Article of Faith record (I haven't actually heard any post-1985 AoF)

AOF's In This Life LP (1986) is basically post-Rites Of Spring proto-emo, fwiw

not bad, just a different beast entirely

Man sized action is great!

ah I've actually got that but I thought it was 1985 (it's on a CD called Complete 1983-85)

I like it tbh. but yeah the earlier stuff is better

xp

I repeated the old saw abt "well the records don't sound great" and he looked me dead in the eye and said "those records sound EXACTLY how they wanted them to sound"

I think that's totally right, btw. The aesthetic of HD is, as Ken Stringfellow described it, "paper drums and shredded paper voice". I remember arguing with an old editor re: DH vs Sugar, and she said she hated Sugar because of the conventional rhythm section, and that Grant's percussion served as an antidote to ploddy rock machismo. The WEA albums especially sound, I'd reckon, exactly how they're supposed to sound - though again I'd argue the SST CDs would sound better if they were more akin to how the SST vinyl sounds.

See also: And Justice for All, which got remastered last year or so and everyone was all "finally some low end!" and the band basically said, um, it sounds that way because we wanted it to sound like that.

Yeah tbh I love AJFA's hissy attack. IT DOESN'T NEED BASS.

They ended up touring fairly extensively behind Diver Down: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_Your_Sheep_Tour

According to that setlist info, they even previewed some 1984 album tracks during those shows.

lol