thread to dis hyped releases that you don't get/don't like/wanna complain about

I mean ppl did that with dylan or lennon. ofc that’s considered more rock than pop these days. but I sort of see the point. not sure sure if or why it’s necessarily bad

When she mines that - goes, "what kind of a person is Taylor Swift and how did I get that way?" - she's got something real to work with. There was a lot of that on Lover, which is why I liked Lover

i think this is otm! i really loved lover bc it so much of it seemed to engage with her own created personal narratives over the course of her own career in a real and honest way. but my two favorite songs on the album ("cornelia st." and "death by a thousand cuts") seem to elide direct biography (despite "cornelia st."'s location), and i think they're stronger for how she decenters herself and tries to locate familiar feelings and hurts in contexts that aren't her own

But when she lets her imagination "run wild," imo, it only runs as far as the local all-white high school

well, this is true of the trio of interconnected songs on folklore, and i basically agree that a high school love triangle is a little hard to invest in from my own adult perspective (it was way more fun when fans were reading queerness into it, much as that was obviously all wrong). but i think it sells the rest of the work short. "tolerate it" nails a feeling i've felt echo from adolescence into adulthood (much as one can say there's even a demarcating line between the two that isn't a total invention), not a note of it strikes me as false. and "happiness" feels like the most adult song she's ever written, completely able to see the memory of a relationship from every angle

i know this post is vmic and this is the wrong thread for it but oh well

lmao that first paragraph is a mess

@ ultros, @ Soundslike: it sounds like advert music to me, and the "no PR, literally gave it away" is an angle that is perfect for advert music (see also: Banksy, vegan Christianity). Again: not a dis!

i don't really get "hollow"; is this the part of their sound that reminds me of esg

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, December 12, 2020 2:35 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

OK I'm gonna need a track ref to back up this seemingly very-notm comparison, if you're right then maybe I was listening wrong

If there was anything I felt was "missing" from my completely unfiltered enjoyment of those Sault records it was Hannett-y iciness

pop artists have always been basically archetypes though? i think playing with persona is just another tool in the toolbox - it just doesn't work for me when i don't care for the persona! i think of my favorite pop artists - janet jackson, sade - and i guess i'm into the "adult pure lover" persona. hard to argue that these artists are living that reality, they're just distilling it into its purest form (and they have to have some special access to it in order to do so, imo). it's not "real" or "sincere" necessarily, it's hyper-real and hyper-sincere.

xpost to unperson

I never re-listened but iirc there were ESGish vibes on 5 and 7, maybe more their later stuff though than "UFO" or anything Hannett-y

I'd be curious to hear this "critically acclaimed music is a genre" argument as I'm having a hard time imagining the musical equivalent of Oscar-bait or w/e

Ah so I haven't checked out those releases but I'll do so!

"critically acclaimed music is a genre" I've argued for fifteen years that the rise of decimal-based evaluative systems and RYM-style aggregators will favour music that is "quantitatively good" rather than "interesting, original, 'artistic'", both in the creation-process and the culling-process. I'd argue also that although this still remains the case (Phoebe Bridgers) this is becoming less-the-case over time (Backxwash)

I'm having a hard time imagining the musical equivalent of Oscar-bait or w/e

not critics’ lists but there is certainly such a thing as”grammy bait”

still v tickled by this naming of the notion of EOY-bait; in certain hands (mine) it could be very dangerous and annoying

I've first-hand seen indie film production houses who've garnered Oscar-nominations for their past work absolutely set this success as a benchmark, and make production choices with the goal for a repeat colouring their decision-making. Similarly, certain album-makers or adjacent administrative bodies absolutely make decisions with a goal of "widespread critical acclaim" (as opposed to, say, an effective realization of a nebulous artistic goal), just as others are aiming for "chart success" or "usage in the club". This isn't to say that Sault are doing this by any means tho. Taylor Swift wrt Folklore? probably.

I remember when Tegan woke up one day and said "that's it, I'm tired of this" and told Sara that they were gonna start making hit records, and they changed their process. Interestingly, they always had an audience, but zero critical attention; critical adulation only came when they made the deliberately decision to "make hits"

xxp such as this “Black Pumas” group

@fgti: Cleo Sol "A Rose in the Dark" is from the same Sault people, but her voice is centered and ergo might appeal more? Idk, it's basically neo-soul though and while often quite lovely isn't as much fun as, say, Ari Lennox imo

xp that post does clear it up for me, thanks!

to expand: the "bait" being an influence on the artistic process rather than a recognizable set of generic sonic signifiers makes sense to me

Personally, I think of Swift’s lyrics as sort of in the realm of ’80s Paul Simon (coming from a very different perspective, of course). You may find them cloying / insincere / limited in their pov / whatever, but that doesn’t make the album any less good (for me).

I gd love that Cleo Sol album and didn't know there was a connection, thx :)

lol what a disaster for this thread :)

_ I'm having a hard time imagining the musical equivalent of Oscar-bait or w/e_

not critics’ lists but there is certainly such a thing as”grammy bait”

lol what a disaster for this thread :)

Attenborough voice: even here there is life

lol breastcrawl

btw you can win a grammy with this one simple trick: change your last name to Marley

Ah so I haven't checked out those releases but I'll do so!

― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, December 12, 2020

'5' and especially '7' remain Sault's best work--as good as the two 'Untitled' records are, and with interesting expansions of their sound, the first two albums remain the most front-to-back thrilling.

lol breastcrawl

btw you can win a grammy with this one simple trick: change your last name to Marley

Don't say I didn't warn you when Naira wins a "best reggae album" grammy

I’ve always wondered if “Naira” Marley is a play on “Bob” Marley, seeing as he grew up as a Nigerian kid in London.

wee-bey.gif

also how am I only just finding out about the existence of this? https://www.bbc.com/pidgin

Dunno, the whole thing just doesn't sound felt at all. Whenever her music is playing I get the sense that someone is trying to grift me, and the attempt is about as convincing as an MLM scheme.

― pomenitul, Saturday, 12 December 2020 18:31 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

thread is useful in reminding me of the typical quality and utility of other people's opinions

Your taste in music is among the absolute furthest from my own on this board. Did you really need a reminder?

No, but I occasionally need reminding that a lot of ILM has not meaningfully advanced beyond a “this music is bad because my whiny girlfriend in college used to like it” level of thinking about music.

Welcome to the 'thread to dis hyped releases that you don't get/don't like/wanna complain about'.

on no! FITE! oh NO!!

Yeah sorry I forgot that this thread is supposed to be a safe space for marination in unreconstructed and unoriginal thinking.

I thought pomenitul's observation was evocative, if not informative

I think the comparisons of TS to Hershey’s and Skittles in this thread (as opposed to, presumably, more “gourmet” or “nourishing” fare) provide worthwhile insights into how certain ppl think about music.

oh I thought those were comparisons to Merseybeat and skiffle. seemed weird but whatever.

lol

ftr I intended this thread as one to complain about specific releases, not gonna thread police but imo "this artist is garbage" posts can go into one of the many musical challops threads, I'm more interested in critiques of the releases themselves (sure, the lines will blur)

Snark aside, I think this thread serves a useful purpose and I mostly enjoy following along. I don’t post much because I don’t spend much time thinking about music I don’t click with, and (as this thread occasionally makes clear) it’s genuinely hard for most people, myself included, to come up with interesting things to say about music that one is not inspired to spend time with.

To my mind the most interesting negative criticism tends to be more along the lines of constructive criticism, where you can see what would be a better-executed of the basic concept more starkly precisely because the end result almost gets there - if we must use gastronomic metaphors, less “this is like skittles whereas I am a gourmet”, more “this curry could have used some fresh coriander as a garnish.”

This salad dressing is the jam

sorry but I find Russian dressing trite, it lacks sincerity

trying to think of what else I hated this year, it's been such a weird year

Chris Forsyth is def an "I don't get the hype" category, 3rd rate Neil Young moves to my ears

Sault could use more seasoning

Brandy? More like White Claw. (not joking here; don’t get the enthusiasm for that record)

"Kick me under the table all you want, I won't shut up, I won't shut up"

-Donald J Trump

(I will say it's in fact super cool how she chases that chorus up & down the scale throughout the song)

What the fuck is this Yves Tumor shite?

now that's the spirit!

(ps yr wrong)

Relentlessly negative criticism can be constructive insofar as it implies that your time would be better spent paying attention to another – preferably undersung – artist. It is a vengeful meting out of justice, a rhetorical act of revolutionary Terror aimed at upending the status quo for the sake of aesthetic equality.

Still, I do agree that, in most cases, the pedagogical approach ('here is where you messed up, Timmy; now let me tell you how you can improve…') is the best and most civilized way of practicing the art of naysaying.

But that was never this thread's premise, was it? I mean, just look at OP's introductory post (and were you even targeting specific releases there, sleeve? ha!).