thread to dis hyped releases that you don't get/don't like/wanna complain about

Ah ok fair enough!

i didn't mind sault's 5 and 7 records - there's something there, just needs to be weirder and wilder imo, atm it doesn't really have much personality

Pretty much, and I'd also like to echo boxedjoy's description of the lyrics as 'very didactic'.

great posts ums, thanks

culture and stan culture and the industry is so incredibly invested in the "intense personalization" unperson mentioned upthread, like christ there were practically explainers about Pete Davidson references on that Ariana Grande record, and I've read similar things about Swift like oooh massive shade to this ex boyfriend...I feel like you're constantly being told no this isn't up for interpretation - this is how X album is positioned in this star's life journey right now and here's x and x and x lyrics about it

So I get that projecting high school feelings on to a pop star's persona or your impression of them as a person isn't a great way - in the abstract - to judge art, it feels like a lot of things in late capitalism, it's basically made inescapable (like using Uber or something) by forces much bigger than you, but you're a dumb asshole if you do it

I completely agree with this. But I do sort of recognize a difference (and maybe it's a false distinction) between someone like Ariana Grande who strikes me as very much a curated product - like, Ariana writes a tweet about a relationship, and her team of songwriters writes a song about the tweet which is then seen as intensely personal and autobiographical - and people like Taylor Swift or Miley Cyrus who are trying to act as independent artists but have to work within a context of having been hyperfamous since their teens, so that anything they write about themselves is going to comment on/interact with this very public persona that's been established for them.

I'm curious - are there any really personally famous artistes whose music demands to be taken as impersonal?

techno/EDM artists maybe?

in retrospect I think we can blame The Beatles for some of this "cult of personality, the songs are really about x" stuff

I don’t “follow” her

You don't have to look hard. The filmed concert from the 1989 (?) tour that was up on Apple Music at the time included all kinds of shit like videos of her celebrity friends like Selena Gomez talking about baking cookies at TS's house, TS telling the audience they were all her personal friends, bringing other celebrity friends on stage to meet the audience.

I'm curious - are there any really personally famous artistes whose music demands to be taken as impersonal?

I think Mariah Carey is very successful at this, to such an extent that I would bet a lot of people don't even know she writes her own material; they likely just assume that she has squads of contributing songwriters like every other giant pop icon.

Okay, I've now listened to a huge number of songs by the 1975, and am convinced that I was wrong before— it's not really made for people like me, but I can appreciate how they're playing with pop tropes both sonically and visually.

I've actually been investigating why I have such a visceral reaction against groups like the 1975 on first listen, and I think that much of it just has to do with lack of exposure— when I was in high school, I didn't care for Jimmy Eat World, but I knew "The Middle," and can now appreciate how perfect it is as a song.

For about the last fifteen or so years of my life, I've pretty studiously ignored pop-rock oriented music, while keeping up nominally with popular hip-hop and RnB. But the lack of exposure has led me to hear certain types of sounds and immediately react negatively toward them, partially because I just have little reference point for what it is— I've quite literally missed much of the past 15 years of non-dance and non-"urban" popular music, and while at this point I'm fine with have that be the way it is, it has led me to judge music unfairly...even quite recently!

in retrospect I think we can blame The Beatles for some of this "cult of personality, the songs are really about x" stuff

Hm, on the surface, this is pretty far removed from how I see the Beatles' relationship to their audience, public personae, and public discussion of their own lyrics. Could you expand?

Lesson being, I should keep my ears open more often. Like, uh, I recently discovered that I like a lot of Linkin Park songs.

I still don't understand the love for Taylor Swift, but I have given up there.

xp Sund4r I was mostly thinking abt the John and Yoko thing and how that was reflected in some later period songs

You don't have to look hard. The filmed concert from the 1989 (?) tour that was up on Apple Music at the time included all kinds of shit like videos of her celebrity friends like Selena Gomez talking about baking cookies at TS's house, TS telling the audience they were all her personal friends, bringing other celebrity friends on stage to meet the audience.

I don’t watch that stuff! Maybe I’m the weird one here – but I consider myself a fan of her music, buy her records, etc., and I don’t engage in any of that.

(I did try watching a little of the thing on Disney+, where she sits around talking about the songs, and I thought it was boring as shit)

Plastic Ono Band is probably the first album that demanded to be taken as a "real" statement on the artist's life, with the assumption that the audience is ready to be fascinated. There was also the paradoxical element that Lennon was tearing down the artifice of celebrity, which I don't think anyone says of Taylor Swift.

plastic ono band is a good call in that it operates under the assumption that the you know a lot about lennon's life, childhood, the whole break up of the beatles saga etc

I mean, projecting sincerity, direct personal connection, and autobiographical expression have afaict been a part of TS's deal all along so it doesn't seem unfair to critique her on those grounds.

people have talked in similar ways about Beethoven for 200 years. this is just certain romantic ideas about art and heroism adapted for a neoliberal clickbait era isn't it

it's generally obnoxious but a lot more so if you don't like the artist to start with. I don't get the need for all this analysis to justify the initial distaste. reminds me of the interminable debates about M.I.A. 15 years ago, except Taylor is actually popular so the discourse around her is harder to avoid

I don't get the need for all this analysis to justify the initial distaste

lol sorry

projecting sincerity, direct personal connection, and autobiographical expression have afaict been a part of TS's deal all along so it doesn't seem unfair to critique her on those grounds.

This seems common to so many singer-songwriters though. I just take at face value that they are doing that, and then it’s a matter of whether the music connects with me or not. That’s just me personally.

TS: the smugness of dismissing music out of hand because you supposedly dislike being ‘challenged’ vs the smugness of writing a bible-length theoretical epic that carefully explains why Tay-tay sux.

No better thread to type it, I guess: every time I see people fawning over a new Arthur Russell thing that has been unearthed, I wanna scream we get it. you like your music fags to be dead. it makes the music so much more meaningful. thank you for reminding me. I feel like you're just rubbing it in my face at this point. "oh, haven't you heard the new Arthur? also, why don't you die? die, die, die."

I don’t smugness inherent in either of those things tbh

xp

I def agree, my post was facetious more than anything.

No better thread to type it, I guess: every time I see people fawning over a new Arthur Russell thing that has been unearthed, I wanna scream we get it. you like your music fags to be dead. it makes the music so much more meaningful. thank you for reminding me. I feel like you're just rubbing it in my face at this point. "oh, haven't you heard the new Arthur? also, why don't you die? die, die, die."

― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, December 13, 2020 11:46 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

A million times this.

And I too am a huge fan and rinse every new thing that is unearthed!

I honestly never thought of it like that, and although I'm really glad Knudson is doing that work I can see the point

but y'know dead artists sell, that's certainly true across the board

My thing with him, which obviously is coming from a less invested place but nonetheless, is how people seem really intent on reinventing an artist who was known as much for making (brilliant) dance music as an indie singer songwriter

well he was really fuckin good at both things tbh

I think Sault are good. Don’t have strong feelings abt it but do think it’s a bit 30 something record collector to make them the center of your musical universe but there’s nothing wrong w that per se and it’s a really well done version of it ? Idk

the LCD Soundsystem of the 2020s

well he was really fuckin good at both things tbh

― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, December 13, 2020 3:22 PM (nineteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sure (tho I’d hesitate to pigeonhole his non dance work as “indie singer songwriter) but only one of those gets a real commercial emphasis (i guess ? Because that was what was on the tapes, regardless if there are good reasons for it or not it feels like it’s remaking his story a bit to me)

well there's also been releases like "Corn" and "Calling Out Of Context" that were "on the tapes" so idk about that

and he played in The Necessaries! ffs

sorry for derail

he was good at everything basically

Tbh his Echo demos are super-stunning, very pleased to have them in my earholes

I was more just... surprised when I got Love is Overtaking Me, like no fuckin way this guy who was so good at dance music and experimental (modern classical adjacent? but basically the world of echo type stuff) could be that good at singer songwriter stuff....I almost kept thinking I was fooling myself, but those songs are just really good songs

this thread is getting alarmingly positive

lol otm

here

Ok . MORE Arthur Russell (But This Is Great)

this thread is making me feel like I have a moral obligation to listen to Sault

The constant unearthing of Arthur Russell out-takes and demos and rarities feels more like opportunistic cash-ins than anything, even when the stuff is good the status of it makes me feel a bit uneasy

why?

https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/arts/music/arthur-russell-archives-new-york-public-library.amp.html?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16079016016183&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F05%2F29%2Farts%2Fmusic%2Farthur-russell-archives-new-york-public-library.html