Post a controversial music opinion

Probably. I don't understand why they are so highly rated and have become techno cannon though. I guess I don't get the epic impulse in pop music, it ends up sounding more than not like music to tune car hifi's to.

people can readily admit italo disco is akin to the happy hardcore of its day, but they can't admit that DM is like the 90s eurohouse of its day.

P.S: 90s happy hardcore up until about 97 is better than Italo in every conceivable way.

I’ll post another one of my own (just to push some of that grossness from earlier further above the fold):

George Michael’s “Father Figure” is the greatest pop song of its decade.

strong contender for sure. George was da man!

madonna is a grifter.

hence her charm

I’ll post another one of my own (just to push some of that grossness from earlier further above the fold):

George Michael’s “Father Figure” is the greatest pop song of its decade.

― Rockin’, and rollin’, and whatnot (morrisp),

You won't get much resistance 'round these parts advocating for any George Michael single.

hence her charm

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 31, 2022 6:27 AM

"i'm fine with being duped"

do you mean *her music* is a grift? and if so, what does that mean?

A grifter by her very nature needs suckers, so...

no idea if this is controversial or not but madonna falls flat for me mostly because she can't sing very well. i'm like 20 years into being mystified by her appeal beyond a couple of singles. she's like an automatic popper hit for white gays of a certain age though.

i've decided i really don't like grace jones for the same reason, god-awful singer.

Not arguing but: When did Madonna become a grifter in your opinion?

Early Madonna was a punky striver who just wanted very badly to be famous, and worked hard at it. My perspective is slightly tinged because I have a friend who was a pre-fame bandmate of hers.

My concept of Madonna's career arc was that she has (1) the larval stage of scrappy impoverished striving, (2) an extremely sudden ascent to solo stardom (at which point she promptly left behind all of her former collaborators), (3) a string of jubilant, utterly flawless 80s hits, and (4) a long period - still ongoing - in which she has sufficient cultural power to do whatever the fuck she wants, good or bad.

madonna's like a music world version of hilary clinton. if you work hard enough occasionally lightning strikes.

My controversial opinion about Madonna: she's a dork, i.e. she's not as cool as we think she is. It comes out during interviews at every stage of her career -- far from assured

absolutely

she tries so very hard

she's a grafter

madonna is italian for m'lady

absolutely

― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Monday, January 31, 2022 10:34 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

she tries so very hard

― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map)

see, with her great singles ("Open Your Heart," "Like a Prayer," the early things) they come so easily that I wonder why the hell no one had sung these tunes this way or write them like this.

madonna and grace jones are more performers than singers but they're two instances where the performance's power outweighs any technical insufficiency imo

also in my experience it is very hard to sing "borderline"

you're all reminding me that i've been wanting to watch truth or dare

i know some of those early madonna tracks were pitched up slightly, by like a half-step. not sure if "borderline" is among them (and not that that makes it any easier to sing)

definitely not deying the power of madonna or grace jones as performances, they just don't work for me as well as i wished they did.

'vogue' is the madonna tune i think is perfect, i flipped on it after seeing what it does to a gay dance floor.

Singing "Open Your Heart" was one of my most embarrassing karaoke performance, maybe the worst. I've done better with material with singers with "better" voices.

Yeah I get the dorkiness and the tryhard nature of Ms. Ciccone. I don't think of her as cool. Almost beyond cool. Her 80s singles (which I will never denigrate) do evoke a persona, but it is acknowledged as conscious artifice. If that was a grift, well, I was a willing victim.

Personally I am left cold by mid- and late-career Madonna, post-Music. Just not interesting to me. But I cannot ever speak ill of her initial run of hits.

tl; dr: If loving "Borderline" is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

borderline is the other perfect one in my book. i tried liking 'open your heart' recently and eh.

Surely it's not controversial to say that as Madonna became a better singer, it didn't necessarily mean her music improved?

She still wrote good songs on Ray of Light and Music, at times singing them stiffly, but if there's a decline it's an inevitable one that has little to do with her voice. I love more than half of Confessions, her last near-great album.

re: madonna as "performer"

ya, grifting is all about acting in a way that makes the mark believe you.

there's a black hole in my memory and in madonna's catalog where mdna and hard candy live, but otherwise i at least like something about all of her other records, even her late period, which is confounding, i hesitate to say "in a good way" but i'm fascinated by it

so you're okay with having been duped as well.

i don't understand this "grifter" thing at all

it's okay, Austin doesn't either.

Post a confusing music opinion

madonna and honey dijon in la recently. no comment other than i think honey is super talented. one or both of these people may or may not be grifting austin.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CY2aGSDPYqo/

"a person who swindles by means of deception or fraud"

you guys have already conceded that she can't sing. and her claim to fame is being a "singer." is it a stretch to say that anyone who paid money for any of her records or shows —while conceding that singing isn't her strong suit— has been conned? i don't think so.

i'm not from around here, but i would think that being the target of a grifter isn't something that one should take lightly.

also, i deleted my instagram so i can't look at that without logging in. oh well, surely the grift continues without my attention.

i don't understand the grace jones thing, either. at least she worked with decent collaborators.

you guys have already conceded that she can't sing.

I don't believe they did.

maybe people like her songs either way

Hey opera peeps sing all their dialogue what’s up with that no one sings their Arby’s order y’all got played.

most pop stars are average to below average singers

i'm not from around here, but i would think that being the target of a grifter isn't something that one should take lightly.

lmao

i would think that being the target of a grifter isn't something that one should take lightly.

You're right. I've spoken to my barrister.

madonna falls flat for me mostly because she can't sing very well.

― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Monday, January 31, 2022 7:29 AM

madonna [is an] instance where the performance's power outweighs any technical insufficiency

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, January 31, 2022 7:38 AM

and brad is a published music critic, so i mean????

fine if you like her songs, but it's like being a wwe wrestling fan: it's just a legitimized grift.

One of my favouritest musical performances in history is Madonna singing "Sooner Or Later" on the Oscars 1991

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bgNyaAz1jg

What I love about it is how close it toes the line on "Madonna, Exposed". She is trying to look like Marilyn and sing like Bernadette and have all the charm of Mae West all at the same time, and she has absolutely none of those people's natural talents, and here she is singing such a precarious Sondheim melody with all these "sexy" dance moves and she is utterly, utterly terrified. The first time I saw this performance, after she bites her finger, and you can see her hand trembling with fear, even as a kid I felt recognition, being on a stage, terrified that your shortcomings are gonna be exposed, and yet she pulls it off and I found myself rooting for her 100%

So I think she's a grifter, sure, and I don't think it's so much that she's "in on the grift" as much as she's "extremely afraid of having her talentless ass exposed and thus works extremely hard to deliver unsinkable singles and the best-possible performances" and I extremely respect that

i'm sorry but that's one of the worst things i've ever seen and the complete antithesis of what a good performance is.

it's like being a wwe wrestling fan: it's just a legitimized grift

Ha ha, I finally get you now. You're one of those assholes who believes in "authenticity" (hence your earlier "soul is better than rock" gambit).

but honestly, thanks for the post.

Good post, fgti.

xpost to fgti