Post a controversial music opinion

I do object to the objection to the deployment of "grift" or "scam" or any similar observation.

I'm inclined to welcome the kind of magic trickery you describe and to be manipulated in this way and I see it as potentially enriching on an individual, case by case basis. But the cumulative effect of being constantly bombarded with seductive things is actually quite harmful.

controversial opinion: this thread was much better before it became an ILM thread again

I Love Marketing

fgti: I think I was the first to object to the term "grift," but tbc I wasn't saying you shouldn't use the word ever, it was a specific context.

OTOH, while I'm not a prescriptivist, the definition of grift is pretty narrow:
"to obtain (money or property) illicitly (as in a confidence game)" and "to acquire money or property illicitly"

So from my perspective, it doesn't mean "trick" and by this definition, there is no such thing as a "good grift" (apart from some kind of Robin Hood scenario). Vernacular usage may be trending your way, but the original meaning still dominates—the word spread like wildfire during the Trump administration for a reason—and anyway there is no way Austin intended it as a compliment on Madonna's stagecraft.

The Grifters were great; if they ever knowingly grifted they had a funny way of going about it

Now I can't get the vision of Bernard Sumner singing "I Knew You Were Trouble" out of my head.

don't bring Kylie into it or you'll have yerman back

There's a famous Björk quote about how she did basically everything on one of her albums, taking years to do so, and a male collaborator came in and made a few tweaks and every journalist assumed he did everything and all she did was sing.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, February 1, 2022 5:43 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

For example, I did 80% of the beats on Vespertine and it took me three years to work on that album, because it was all microbeats—it was like doing a huge embroidery piece. Matmos came in the last two weeks and added percussion on top of the songs, but they didn’t do any of the main parts, and they are credited everywhere as having done the whole album. [Matmos’] Drew [Daniel] is a close friend of mine, and in every single interview he did, he corrected it. And they don’t even listen to him. It really is strange.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleigh_Grifter

I Love Marketing

― Evan, Tuesday, February 1, 2022 3:47 PM (thirty-one minutes ago)

A controversial opinion indeed.

xp good bikes! i had a no-brand knock-off version when i was 9 that just said 'SATAN' on the frame

"How's the literary grift go?" I asked.

He looked at me sharply, demanding: "You haven't been reading me?"

"No. Where'd you get that funny idea?"

"There was something in your tone, something proprietary, as in the voice of one who has bought an author for a couple of dollars. I haven't met it often enough to be used to it. Good God! Remember once I offered you a set of my books as a present?" He had always liked to talk that way.

"Yeah. But I never blamed you. You were drunk."

maybe John Cage 4' 33" is an example of a musical grift? like you went expecting music and got silence?

ban ums

Same thing but in reverse with "The Sound of Silence"

maybe John Cage 4' 33" is an example of a musical grift? like you went expecting music and got silence?

People asking for a refund were told "but money is everywhere, even in your empty wallet"

xpost please do

the video is literally him showing up to the studio in his pjs being like "ok what we recording today... ok later!" and like the dudes writing the song for him.

could only make it a minute in but this video is extremely admirable

Robert Wyatt is a musical genius and one of the finest songwriters that's ever lived, but his twee whimsical Englishman voice can sometimes grate on me over the duration of an album. See also: the guy from Gentle Giant

I know. In the wrong mood he grates on me too.

Bowie has no front-to-back great albums.

"Scary Monsters" is pretty fucking close.

(xxp) You mean the second singer in Gentle Giant? It's the lead singer I can't stand.

(xxp) You mean the second singer in Gentle Giant? It's the lead singer I can't stand.

― Bastards of Fish (Tom D.), Thursday, February 10, 2022 10:08 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I didn't realize there were two singers! Whichever one sings stuff like "An Inmate's Lullaby."

Yes, that's the keyboard player singing.

aren't there three singers in GG? at least up until Octopus there were

"An Inmate's Lullaby" is actually Derek Shulman singing, the Gentle Giant site confirms it.

Phil Shulman sang some leads on the early records, like "Isn't It Quiet and Cold".

So we still don't know who dislikes which singer.

Here's a helpful guide from their website, an example of a song where all three sing lead in different parts:

The Advent of Panurge
Lead vocals: Kerry, overdubbed (or perhaps with Phil); Derek ("Then said he fair Pantagruel..."); Phil ("Look at my friend...")

Gentle Giant was one of my dad's favorite bands and I only remember bits and pieces of their records from my childhood. I've never actively listened to them despite my love of many of their contemporaries like Camel, Yes, and even Yezda Urfa, who I am told is basically a GG clone band. I guess I should revisit at some point, I bet I'd love them now.

My controversial music opinion is that it's cool to read Rabelais and then name your rock song "The Advent of Panurge".

who sings "Think of Me with Kindness"? that song really gets to me, love it in the course of the album, this pretty overwrought Colin Blunstone song pops up out of nowhere 😢

"An Inmate's Lullaby" is actually Derek Shulman singing, the Gentle Giant site confirms it.

Oops. Kerry has the high choirboy voice and sounds like Peter Hammill before his balls dropped.

Ha.. "His Last Voyage" is Kerry, then.

Yes, and "Think of Me with Kindness" too.

Betty Davis was important without actually being especially good. More of a catalyst/influencer than an actual talent.

No snark: is that controversial?

She was good within her range, but a lot of people talked her records up as being more consequential than they were.

That happens on social media anytime someone dies now, though. Everyone gets to retrospectively be the GOAT for a few days. I don't mind it if the hyperbole encourages people to check out good work they wouldn't have heard otherwise.

That didn't happen to Michael Chapman :(

yeah RIP to a real one, was a privilege to see him play

here to say i also hate the gentle giant singer's voice !

GG singers are endurable for me without being enjoyable, unlike say Ian Anderson who I can't abide after about 1972.

Robert Wyatt is a musical genius and one of the finest songwriters that's ever lived, but his twee whimsical Englishman voice can sometimes grate on me over the duration of an album.

Had to admit to myself in the end that this is my opinion too, sorry St Robert.

getting pretty annoyed at the existence of steely dan lately. sometimes because you can doesn't mean you should. i go through phases with them. sometimes their records are okay, sometimes i hate them because ugh yuck what am i listening to. i've never thought of them as anything more than tolerable and even their best songs as second or third tier competitors to their peers.

I don’t think being ambivalent to Steely Dan is particularly controversial?

who are Steely Dan's peers? not peerless in the sense they are greater than every other 70s band but they are pretty unique in the classic rock canon. maybe Boz Skaggs?

i'm using peers in a very general way here: anybody who released a record that made any chart in the 70s is a peer of anyone else who released a record that made any chart in the 70s.

So even their best songs are second or third tier competitors to… any song that made any chart? I take it back, that is controversial

"When Austin posts in circles it's a mad thread" - Tiers for Peers

sometimes because you can doesn't mean you should.

Words to post by.