(I guess, in other words, “just musicians” wouldn’t necessarily be the other side of the dichotomy – as there’s definitely that X-factor in play for almost anyone who becomes a “star.”)
― Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Sunday, 26 June 2022 05:03 (two years ago) link
Joni Mitchell is a very good painter imo
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 26 June 2022 05:45 (two years ago) link
who just happen to chosen music as a quick route to fame
oh, what I'm saying is more like: there are different varieties of recognition, one may be more appealing than another, and it's one of the things that can excite someone about a specific medium, but usually not the only thing, and I suspect there are other reasons why Bowie in particular and others more generally are drawn to their medium over others, including capabilities/limitations of the form itself and cultural expectations of its practitioners.
And I would add that artists will usually produce better work in the medium where they have the most practice or discipline.
― The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Sunday, 26 June 2022 05:49 (two years ago) link
There must be a big musician who is also a great visual artist?
Ron Wood obv
― The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Sunday, 26 June 2022 06:16 (two years ago) link
He's got his own exhibition to do.
― fetter, Sunday, 26 June 2022 08:33 (two years ago) link
Bill Dixon was fairly renowned for his painting (and later, printmaking), but he had been a painter before he began his music studies. He has said that he’s been lucky in that his work received far more exposure than that of some of his contemporaries in visual art by appearing on his album covers (around 15, which is most of his discography).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 10:24 (two years ago) link
That guy in that punk band.
― Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 June 2022 10:28 (two years ago) link
... i.e. Nick Blinko of Rudimentary Peni.
― Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 June 2022 10:31 (two years ago) link
Beefheart is the obvious one in that he probably made more out of painting than music.
― Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 June 2022 10:32 (two years ago) link
Well maybe, but I read a quote from one of his school mates: at assembly, when they were all asked what they meant to be after graduating, and other lads were saying like "Electrician," "Engineer," "Accountant," he answered, "Pop star."
― dow, Friday, June 24, 2022 6:54 PM (two days ago)
oooh, look at bowie's schoolmates being all "i was into the whole electrician thing way before bowie, he never said a word about it until '78"
― Kate (rushomancy), Sunday, 26 June 2022 11:20 (two years ago) link
can we keep the word "creatives" out of this thread
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 26 June 2022 11:48 (two years ago) link
The opposite of this phenomenon might be Jacques Brel spending years trying to reinvent himself as a filmmaker (though I haven't seen any of his movies, maybe they're great - maybe Madonna's a great film director too, but I'm not eager to find out).
― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 26 June 2022 12:02 (two years ago) link
Now, a record has the ability to sidestep whatever it's supposed to do. When it ends it ENDS. This was not a guy who wanted to make a statue.
A more extreme example of this mindset would be Fela Kuti, who never performed songs live that he'd already recorded. You weren't gonna hear any of the old shit if you went to see him — you were gonna hear next year's shit.
Peter Brötzmann. He's designed almost all of his own album covers going back to 1965, as well as gig posters, etc., etc., but he also paints, is a printmaker, builds Rauschenberg-style sculptures and has had multiple gallery exhibits of his work.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 26 June 2022 12:58 (two years ago) link
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Ronnie-Wood-painting-web-optimised-1000.jpg
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 26 June 2022 13:19 (two years ago) link
Bono dabbles in poetry, I hear.
― Antifa Sandwich Artist (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 26 June 2022 13:36 (two years ago) link
Jonathan Richman is a pretty decent artist. I like his stuff more than Ron Wood’s anyways.
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 26 June 2022 16:13 (two years ago) link
I heard he makes very nice pizza ovens as well.
― Build My Gallows Hi Hi Hi (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 June 2022 16:18 (two years ago) link
Saying that Bowie doesn’t have blues in his music was a half-baked and on reflection clearly false stab in the dark. My apologies for the derail. One of his early bands was called the Manish Boys, for chrissakes.
― o. nate, Sunday, 26 June 2022 17:10 (two years ago) link
Grimes makes her own artwork and scammed some rich person into buying an NFT of hers for 6 million or so, guess that makes her one of the most successful ones.
One of the Tool guys helps make their art and videos iirc?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 26 June 2022 17:15 (two years ago) link
(xp) Yes, there's quite a lot of blues (rock) on "The Man Who Sold the World", for instance. Also he did TWO Pretty Things songs on "Pin Ups"!
― Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 June 2022 17:35 (two years ago) link
...and "I Wish You Would" by Billy Boy Arnold via the Yardbirds.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 26 June 2022 18:03 (two years ago) link
Don't know much about visual art, but my impression is that Expressionism is hard, because latter-day attempts beg so much comparison with Schiele and a or the few other original virtousi--was a flash in the pan, wasn't it, mainly because so hard not to look anti-climatic/a little pathetic in comparison (representational art became hard in the 20th Century. The full-time artists who brought back figures effectively did something different with them, like Philip Guston. Re (enthusiastic!)johnny-come-lately,celebrity art Expressionists, I'm hinking of Bowie, Ron Wood, Mellancamp, though I haven't really seen enough to judge, even as an ignorant looker.
Dylan's album cover figurative art is fun, and true enough to the music inside, one way or anotehr (on Self-Portrait, he looks like a florid housepainter doorknob going, "Whaaa?": open that door and you are not going to get another masterpiece) the celebrity art prints are fun too, and I posted some of them on one of his threads. Beefheart was smart to take another direction, and when he did it full-time, even better. I can't think of another full-time music artist who's done that.
I suspect that if Bowie had been really serious about acting, he would have wanted the same kind of control he developed in music, where he could collaborate with Visconti and Eno and some of his studio combos. To do that with a director or producer, he would have had to put in a lot more time than he had, outside of music, to build up cred in the biz, or he would have had to put up the backing, which he could have done with some of his Bowie Bonds (when he put up his catalogue as collateral on a massive 10-year investment by Prudential), and time-wise, when he stopped doing the huge tours and put out albums less frequently Are there musicians who are "just musicians" and others who are capitol-A "Artists" or "creatives" first and foremost, and how can you tell the difference? Reminds me that after he started playing violin and trumpet and maybe some other instruments besides sax on records and stage, Ornette said that he kept in mind what he wanted to do on an instrument, not just how to play it in a technical, instruction book sense (didn't mention taking lessons, pretty sure). Seems like this was the main thing with Bowie, although he did, early on, take sax lessons from Peter Frampton's father, and xgau said something along the lines of "he's learned to sing, whoopee" re one of the records, like conventional capability was kind of irrelevant or secondary in the Bowie experience (also, he still didn't like that particular record all that much).
Oh yeah, it's from his Heathen review! (2002, so not prime time Bo, I guess, dunno)
...He has indeed Learned to Sing, thus rendering himself more the chansonnier only art-rockers ever wanted him to be, and the strain is hell on his sense of humor. The textures are nicer now, but whose aren't? And while the songwriting ain't bad, it also ain't that good. Just switch between the Black Francis cover and any other track and you'll know exactly what I mean. C+
― dow, Sunday, 26 June 2022 18:25 (two years ago) link
chansonnier so this could be more a matter of taste, foible, prejudice to an extent, since xgau was always swiping at what he liked to call Yurropean artiness, despite having approved albums where Bowie did actually lower-case sing good, like most of Station To Station. But yeah, can see how he was more attracted to Bowie's brash rocker attitude early on, like, "I'm not the best muso, not a great composer, but fuck it, I'm gonna do it." Which was also what Madonna said, pretty much, at least once.
― dow, Sunday, 26 June 2022 18:38 (two years ago) link
What "controversial opinion" are people discussing here?
― the pinefox, Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:01 (two years ago) link
Reminds me that after he started playing violin and trumpet and maybe some other instruments besides sax on records and stage, Ornette said that he kept in mind what he wanted to do on an instrument, not just how to play it in a technical, instruction book sense (didn't mention taking lessons, pretty sure).Fun fact: in 1961 Bill Dixon gave Ornette three (by his count) trumpet lessons, loaned him his mouthpiece, and later took him to Frank Zottola to get his (Ornette’s) own mouthpiece made.It’s all a rich tapestry.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:01 (two years ago) link
Oh yeah, thanks. Think the first record of him playing trumpet was---Live At The Golden Circle? Rec. '65, released in '66. So several years of woodshedding or rumination, maybe. Also unrecorded or un(legit only?) issued performances from those years---?
― dow, Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:15 (two years ago) link
There’s his 1962 Town Hall concert, but that wasn’t released until 1965. After that concert didn’t get the attention he’d hoped for, he didn’t perform or record for several years, but surely during that period he put in some serious time on the trumpet.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:34 (two years ago) link
(Sorry, that was confusing: he didn’t play trumpet on the Town Hall show, but after that, didn’t play or record anything/anywhere for a few years.)
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:35 (two years ago) link
On a Bowie Tip, the entire "Let's Dance" concert is available on YouTube.
It's kind of like a Broadway revue.
Good singing is very much like acting, without all of the minutia and situational snags that might reveal a singer's shortcomings, but some singers have done quite well. Then again, so have comedians and other amateurs.
― I Met Mr. Mathis (I M Losted), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:48 (two years ago) link
I’d be down for thread about good singers/musicians who are also good actors… seems like there is a lot of crossover there.
― Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Sunday, 26 June 2022 21:00 (two years ago) link
I relistened to "Sweet Thing/Candidate/Sweet Thing (Reprise)" and, yeah, he has such great ideas on guitar and sax.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 June 2022 13:50 (two years ago) link
When I first heard it nearly 30 years ago I thought Diamond Dogs was a dud but now I really like it.
― Antifa Sandwich Artist (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 28 June 2022 15:36 (two years ago) link
Limmy singing Wrong Way Down a One Way Street>>>>anything by Bruce Springsteen
― calzino, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 06:14 (two years ago) link
Limmy singing Take a Little Time>>>>Limmy singing Wrong Way Down a One Way Street>>>>anything by Bruce Springsteen
― Eavis Has Left the Building (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 06:58 (two years ago) link
ah think it’s “doan”, like
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 13:25 (two years ago) link
The Phil Collins version of “You Can’t Hurry Love” has a better vocal performance than the Supremes version
― castanuts (DJP), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 15:54 (two years ago) link
boom
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 15:56 (two years ago) link
Take a look at me now!
― Build My Gallows Hi Hi Hi (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:05 (two years ago) link
now I imagine a Diana Ross cover of "Don't Lose My Number."
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:19 (two years ago) link
The only reason he covered that song was because he once saw someone hurrying love, and he wanted to invite them to his show and then make them die out of shame.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:24 (two years ago) link
speaking of: her cover of “I Will Survive” was way better than her versions of her own hits at Glastonbury last weekend, but I doubt that controversial for anyone who’s watched that performance
― big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:28 (two years ago) link
xp re: Diana Ross
― big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:29 (two years ago) link
doubt that*’s* controversial
― big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:30 (two years ago) link
1998 is a terrible year for music, much worse than 1997 or 1999
― Portrait Of A Dissolvi Ng Drea M (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 18:16 (two years ago) link
I don’t know about much worse, but I agree it’s even weaker than those two. I’m a little surprised by the 1998 love on here, but a lot of it seems to be from folks who were a certain age around them.
― Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 18:54 (two years ago) link
*then
― Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 18:55 (two years ago) link
I was 15 in 1998 and can’t stand most of the shit they’re talking about in that thread lol
― brimstead, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:09 (two years ago) link
Watching Roisin Murphy's performance from Zagreb earlier this month, I think she's got the Bowie vibe but is far more talented and charismatic than he was.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:11 (two years ago) link
u fiend
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:34 (two years ago) link
I don't think there's all that much love on the 1998 thread tbh!
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:44 (two years ago) link