Radiohead In Not-A-Bunch-Of-Black-Guys Shocker!

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hey i'll scribble my name on a piece of paper. i am emo.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

or more to the point isn't any kind of statement-that-there-is-a-problem unless etc.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Emotional range is (sometimes) important in order to keep (certain types of) records from getting a bit dull and monotonous. It's not exactly critical, but with an emotionalist project it's worth hoping for.

Dan: I dunno, you can list, I guess, but I never hear anything really cut through. I'm not asking for "happy," obviously, since I'm counting "True Love Waits" as part of what I'm looking for; it just all feels a bit like watching Sisyphus push the boulder up the hill, except without the part where it rolls back down, or like watching Prometheus chained to the rock, except the birds never come. That's just me.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Life In A Glass House"!!!!
"Lucky"!!!!
"Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors"!!!!
"Pyramid Song"!!!!
"Let Down"!!!!
"Just"!!!!
"Sit Down, Stand Up"!!!!
"Myxomatosis"!!!!
"Idioteque"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

M Matos: then why even bring the Africa thing up at all? It's a total nonissue. It's a no brainer. Why make a point of it?

Also, Michaelangelo - who do you think out there has a wide emotional range?


Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

wow, even on their happy songs Thom sounds like he's watching his mother get beaten (smile in the music or no).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Just" is angry. "Idioteque" is apocalyptically afraid. "Let Down" is the closest to a bonafide happy sounding song I can gather from that list.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

With every passing day I grow more confident in my decision to not listen to this album. It's in the changer and I almost got caught today & wound up hearing the opening thirty seconds or so but then I realized what was going on and listened to the new Nevermore instead

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Anthony: I'm not asking for "happy," obviously, since I'm counting "True Love Waits" as part of what I'm looking for

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

matos's posts have little moldova in them.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm actually glad they don't write happy songs, cuz they'd probably sound like Coldplay then.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting.

ams: "moldova"?

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

"africa" still doesn't seem germane to me except as an indicator of christgau's bugaboos and preconceptions.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

matos i like your posts in spite of their lack of moldavic qualities.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

and why shouldn't emotional range be important? there would be just as much of a problem if the Ramones had been the biggest band in the world, too--as in, gee, how does something with such preconceived limits reach so many people?

How many people realistically expect one artist to cover all of their listening needs in terms of emotional range? I guess if you're only going to listen to one artist it'll get tedious very quickly, but if you've got anything even close to a well rounded record collection (which I think most people do, in their own way), you're probably going to go to different artists for different emotions, different ideas, different occasions. So it really doesn't matter if one artist only is good at covering three or four basic emotions. Someone else will compensate.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

matthew you answer your own question: why even bring the Africa thing up at all? - as well as how it relates in the context of the culture at large. also, the notion that radiohead is painted as the only band that matters, the band that's gonna save the world with wail wail wail, exists only in xgau's head is ludicrous (see: any tagline to any radiohead cover story post-ok computer).

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

and the notion that 'africa' (and all that word apparently implies) is irrelevant to the culture at large and just a quirk of xgau's, like he's complaining there's no harmonica on the record (and btw, he's not even complaining there's no africa in yorke's voice), is ludicrous as well

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah the piece seems pretty good to me and I'm a Radiohead fan, I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

"guy"="go" above, sorry

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

all right, never mind all my smarmy posts above. the moldava thing was just dumb.

part of what i'm saying is rather simplye: it's disingenuous to say "africa" when he means "rhythm and blues"! if he actually means "africa" then it is simply not germane. (saying "rhythm and blues" isn't terribly germane either, but it's not risible.)

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

as far as wide emotional range, let's see: Atmosphere, Neil Young, the Streets, Ghostface Killah, Sleater-Kinney, Scarface, Missy Elliott, the Mountain Goats, Baaba Maal, Neko Case, Rancid, Sonic Youth, Aesop Rock, the Reputation, Mr. Lif, DJ Shadow, Queens of the Stone Age, Meshell Ndegeocello, Stephin Merritt in whatever guise, the Mekons, Rjd2, Drive-By Truckers, Spoon, Imperial Teen, Cee-Lo, Cornershop, Raphael Saadiq, Pink, Sugababes, the Rapture, No Doubt, Nas, Eminem, Pet Shop Boys, the White Stripes, Elvis Costello, Pretty Girls Make Graves, and about 100 other bands all seem a little more wide-ranging emotionally to me than Radiohead, who even when I enjoy them seem to occupy a pretty narrow range. which is fine--microhouse occupies a VERY narrow range and it's my favorite music right now.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

you have to be living on another planet to believe that "Africa" = "rhythm & blues"

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

why is saying/meaning 'africa' not germane? was it germane when eno said it?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link


I'm confused now, because earlier you (Matos) said: " why not bring it up? it's something he noticed that seems unique--lots of singers use those effects but it's usually r&b derived, or at least sounds like it, and Yorke's use of them don't. so it's certainly worth noting."

So is he invoking r&b, or african music, or what?

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Matos, what's that music you're listening to?"
"Well, dude, it's this hot mbalax record from Senegal."
"Gee, those rhythms are kind of weird, and it's kind of angular tonally. But it sounds really cool, I like it."
"That's because it's rhythm & blues!" [winks at camera]

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Microhouse - expectant sadness or stunned bliss, Matos?)

Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

(both, Cozen. it's breakbeat hardcore's flipside--expectant comedown and frenzied bliss)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

B-b-but...

I can't see why Christgau would mention Africa if he simply meant that Yorke's voice had little mbalax (or juju, or Afrobeat) in it? And this is different from Cobainbuckleyknowlesdioncreedaguilera how? I get the sense that "Africa" is meant to invoke some tradition which includes r&b and leaves out guys like Yorke.... which I think is misguided and disingenuous.

I hope this doesn't turn ugly because I'm not trying to make fun of you or anything, Matos, I'm honestly a bit confused at this point.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

hmm, I can see yr point, but saying "Africa" is also a way of saying "not remotely European." I think Xgau has written about Yorke as an inheritor of Euro art music tradition, and I certainly buy that. (also "Africa" reads better in that context than "rhythm & blues" which w/Xgau is always plenty of the point)

xpost

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

in other words, he's saying "this guy sounds completely European and not remotely African, African-American, or American" (which in Xgau's definition always retains some or plenty of Africa)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is like The Dream ILM Thread! Xgau + Racism + Overdiscussed Band!! Where's Momus?

Sonny A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

(the mbalax post was just me having fun, btw)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sonny A. otm!!! I better get out of here...

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

i wish he could describe how yorke sounds european in terms a bit more vivid and concrete. better than "pretentious college boy" at least!

(don't we all wish we could describe music in terms that are more vivid and concrete!!)

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

i guess the whole dichotomy being set up--africa on one side and "pretentious college boy" on the other--felt a bit schematic/reductionist to me and does a disservice not just to yorke but to africa and r&b etc. but it's no biggy, i'll admit.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

except he's not saying "no africa = pretentious college boy", he's saying "'Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common = pretentious college boy"

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

the problem comes because he's been putting these terms forth for years, in much more concrete ways, elsewhere and in other pieces, and he definitely expects his readership to catch the x-references. so those of us who read him a lot (like me) do, and he alienates lots of other folx. not sure what to say to that except shrug.

but there's no dichotomy being set up! he's using lack-of-Africa as a description of Yorke's vocal style--it's a parenthetical comment, used to shade the comment. he's referred to De La Soul as pretentious college boys too and you won't see him refusing to say they're African.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

(xpost duh)

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

you're right! mea culpa.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

...which translates to "heavens! i kill you know ;)"

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha - people whining about xgau refusing to accept radiohead on their own terms (which he doesn't even do, he just makes note of the terms) need to accept xgau on his own terms

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Are you quite sure he wasn't making a reference to the singer of the prog band Africa?

Gavin, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like pretentious college boys.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

It wuz a Toto reference I think.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Strangely enough, Yorke's voice actually does remind me of the reedy, high-pitched, nasal inflections that I've heard in some traditional African singing (cf. Ethiopiques: Vol. 5).

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think it's like Xgau's voice grates on yr nerves Matthew and everything he says just makes you guy "Oooh! God I hate that guy's voice!"

Change "Xgau" to "pretty much every writer for the Village Voice except for sometimes Douglas Wolk" and you're OTM. Really, if anything is manifesting itself in my posts in this thread, it is just a full-on disgust with the writing/critique style typical of the Village Voice music section. It's a philosophical difference in how art and music should be discussed.

So, I've got a question. What about all the other white Europeans and Americans who don't have any trace of "Africa" in their singing voice and in their music. What about them? How is observing that Thom Yorke's voice isn't at all like an African's a unique thing about his music compared to loads of other musicians? It's hardly like he's alone in being a popular white singer who doesn't affect mannerisms that people would normally associate with black singers of any nationality.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Er... Toto, right.

Gavin, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha - people whining about xgau refusing to accept radiohead on their own terms (which he doesn't even do, he just makes note of the terms) need to accept xgau on his own terms

I think that depends on whether or not you are willing to consider writing music reviews for free newspapers given away on the street corner to be an artform.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not that writing music reviews for publications that one would have to pay for in any way better or worse, mind you.

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago) link


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