Major 'informal' albums

This may seem counterintuitive, but Madonna's Music

Pixies
The Stranglers
Tropical Fuck Storm
The Raincoats
Roxy Music / Brian Eno
some Sonic Youth

All give me informal vibes, even if the freedom in Eno's albums for example must be super calculated

Not a major album but I've just put on Return Visit to Rock Mass (by Japanese band Maher Shalal Hash Baz), which at 81 short tracks of delightful, ambling, mostly improvised music, must be one of the most informal albums I know.

The great charm of the Replacements Hootenanny and Let it Be is that they are infused with a low-stakes lets-just-throw-in-some-goofs that make the crafted songs stronger and make the personality of the band so much more vivid. All the subsequent albums have higher stakes.

Nick Cave method is it be highly worked/revised/contrived, which really goes towards explaining why he doesn't work for a lot of listeners. I recall that Nocuturama was an attempt to just spit out an album like an outlaw country artist in the 70s, not labor too much over it. And it doesn't work, save for "Babe I'm on Fire", which may be why he went back to writing in an office every day.

Lots of 70s/80s Nashville records are informal like this right?

Booming post, bendy!

Although I suppose if you were listening to the Replacements' albums in chronological order (or at the time they each came out), the "serious songs" rather then the throwaways might have seemed like the outliers.

I'm interested by Nocturama potentially being one! I haven't heard it in yonks so idk if I agree but it being the only album he's basically over done w/Bad Seeds that isn't at least pretty well-loved is what makes me think about it more than, idk, The Good Son or something.

As mentioned with Black and Blue, this phenomenon is tightly tied with the tour/album/PR cycle, isn't it? I'd say it hard for an artist Brian Eno or Kate Bush to fall into this, and much easier if it's four guys in a room with a tour being booked or a songwriter breaking in a reconstituted backing band.

Also, is this the opposite of a New Jersey? We've reached altitude, let's stay in a holding pattern.

Re-reading the original question, I would argue that the Who's It's Hard qualifies.

Major -- it got the most promotion of any Who record up to that point, though it was tied to their "Farewell" tour

Informal -- took them two weeks to record, and apparently not much longer than that to write

Quite jammy and open-ended -- arguably yes, with "Eminence Front" and "Cry If You Want" having longer-than-usual solo sections, and the album overall having a much more casual feel

Playing with other genres -- some neo-funk with "Eminence Front" and "Cooks County."

Low stakes -- they didn't have much to prove at this point, but since it was assumed to be their final record, maybe "low stakes" doesn't apply.

Quite divisive -- definitely divisive among fans (some LOVE this record), but also within the band. Roger Daltrey: "It's Hard should never have been released. I had huge rows with Pete...when the album was finished and I heard it I said, 'Pete, this is just a complete piece of shit and it should never come out!' It came out because as usual we were being manipulated at that time by other things. The record company wanted a record out and they wanted us to do a tour. What I said to Pete was, 'Pete, if we'd tried to get any of these songs onto Face Dances, or any of the albums that we've done since our first fucking album, we would not allow these songs to be on an album! Why are we releasing them? Why? Let's just say that was an experience to pull the band back together, now let's go and make an album.' He said, 'Too late. It's good enough, that's how we are now.'"

still not sure I totally get the thread but can an argument be made for REM’s new adventures as opposed to Up? The former was recorded all over the place, on the road, etc, seems like it kind of formed out of air. Up was like a conscious “we’re in the studio - reinventing ourselves - being arty - ok computer rulez” kind of thing

^I kinda said all that, lol!

What came to mind after reading the OP were mostly soundtrack albums-- Chariots Of Fire (divergent from Vangelis's previous work, huge worldwide hit), Purple Rain (Prince's first soundtrack, had several live-from-the-board recordings on it). I also thought of Ciccone Youth (my most-listened-to SY album) and Arise Therefore (not really divergent, but strange in that there is no artist name officially attached to it) and David's Town (one of my favourite Fucked Up albums is a fake compilation). Weird Era is also ranked highly in Deerhunter's catalogue (and by me) and it's essentially a bonus disc

lol sorry Morris, I ctrl-f’d “new adventures” and got 0 results so figured it hadn’t been mentioned.

all good ha ha

They aren't rock, but Taylor Swift's Evermore and Folklore spring to mind. Both massive commercial hits, both unexpected, recorded quickly, with a lot of the publicity coming from the fact they seemed to have been dashed off.

They're notable for being the two albums that finally broke Taylor Swift in the elusive Discogs.com 180gm mastered-at-45rpm marbled vinyl market. She was a nonentity on Discogs.com before that. 25,000 Discogs.com users have Reputation, 41,000 have Red, but over 70,000 have Folklore, despite the fact it only came out two years ago.

You're not a major artist unless there's a page full of comments on Discogs.com moaning about inner groove distortion.

Some other quarantine records possibly fit then—that Charli XCX one

Does the need for this to be a "major" release disqualify contractual obligation records, like several that have already been mentioned, or Islands by the Band?

Diver Down feels very much phoned in.

Especially in the wake of Fair Warning, which was a very conceptually unified album. Honestly, Van Halen II fits the bill here, too. Saith Wikipedia:

Recording of the album took place at Sunset Studio less than a year after the release of the band's 1978 debut album, Van Halen. Recording of the album began on December 10, 1978, just one week after completing their first world tour, and was complete within a week...Many of the songs on Van Halen II are known to have existed prior to the release of the first album, and are present on the demos recorded in 1976 by Gene Simmons, and in 1977 by Ted Templeman, including an early version of "Beautiful Girls" (then known as "Bring On the Girls") and "Somebody Get Me a Doctor."

That’s an example of the distinct phenomenon of a band’s first two albums being culled from the same batch of material. Devo’s first two are like that as well.

Although if effort expended on recording mapped exactly to quality of album, III would be Van Halen's best record. Surely a kind of offhanded shruggy indolence is one of VH's trademarks?

That’s an example of the distinct phenomenon of a band’s first two albums being culled from the same batch of material. Devo’s first two are like that as well.

I'm pretty sure Jane's Addiction had all the songs for their first two albums before they got signed, too.

Did we have a thread for that thing? Can’t quite remember

Grinderman feels even more informal than Nocturama. If we include "band members playing instruments they don't usually play" as a factor in these, then Out of Time might even count--more relaxed than Green.

xxxxp X too - maybe not recorded at the same time but John Doe said most if not all of the songs were written, but it was Ray Manzarek who pretty much decided which songs to put on Los Angeles and which should be saved for Wild Gift.

Arise Therefore (not really divergent, but strange in that there is no artist name officially attached to it)

Not that I disagree but singling out any one Oldham related album as "informal" is a bit of a slippery slope

xxxxp X too - maybe not recorded at the same time but John Doe said most if not all of the songs were written, but it was Ray Manzarek who pretty much decided which songs to put on Los Angeles and which should be saved for Wild Gift.

Early versions of "Adult Books" and "We're Desperate" were released as a single before they signed with Slash, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd have had a bunch of material ready to go.

Surely a kind of offhanded shruggy indolence is one of VH's trademarks?

― Halfway there but for you, Monday, July 18, 2022 2:07 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think VH are more an example of a band that is less assertive or protective of their artistic vision and more willing to concede all that to the wishes of the label or producer, especially early on. Maybe Roth is the exception, but Roth's idea of Van Halen doesn't really respect "material" as anything more than a vehicle for the band's personality or performance- so Diver Down, covers of R&B standards conform to Roth's vision anyhow.

Neu! 2 has a very “fuck around and find out” vibe for me, despite its canon status

Especially in the wake of Fair Warning, which was a very conceptually unified album.

And one of their strongest. Probably the one I'd rate second after their debut, which is one of the best debut albums ever.

Can we add Amnesiac to the "informal" pile? It comes across mostly as Kid A Part Deux. The material does come off great live, though.

Makes sense, given that they were recorded in the same sessions.

I wasn't counting Amnesiac (and others) because of them being recorded at the same time as a previous album, so the mental idea of them being second helpings is sort of unavoidable (my own specification is cruel, no doubt) (not that I don't think Amnesiac stands up on its own, mind). Also I generally just think TKOL is more the sort of record I mean. More a 'this is where we're all at now, by the way' sort of record.

still not sure I totally get the thread but can an argument be made for REM’s new adventures as opposed to Up? The former was recorded all over the place, on the road, etc, seems like it kind of formed out of air. Up was like a conscious “we’re in the studio - reinventing ourselves - being arty - ok computer rulez” kind of thing

My reason for Up feeling like it *could* have counted, more than Hi-fI, is that said 'reinvention' feels a lot more temporary, more like what they've learned from doing the more offbeat Up tracks is going to form a more songful and less vaporous follow-up album, which is what happened. Plus Hi-Fi being a relative US bomb probably took some pressure off them to provide Warners with too many single prospects (that much they seem quite ready to admit). The problem with Bill's exit though is that the album's loose sound is informed by his exit, and they were barely holding together at that point (although this emphasises the album's 'learning process' feel), so if not a MS its still high stakes.

I love the upthread case for It's Hard! I liked when By Numbers cropped up too - I quite feel that one as well despite the self-deprecating title almost offsetting it all. Maybe not very eclectic but e.g. Squeeze Box (lead single no less) and Blue Red and Grey stand out for being offhand.

Does the need for this to be a "major" release disqualify contractual obligation records, like several that have already been mentioned, or Islands by the Band?

Wouldn't say so, unless they're outtakes albums or just taking the piss (and also cover albums etc as mentioned).

I've always considered Circle of Love by the Steve Miller Band to be this type of record. Coming a few years after the huge success of a pair of albums (recorded simultaneously, I think) it doesn't attempt to recreate them but offers up some low-key almost country-ish tracks ("Heart Like a Wheel", "Get On Home") before settling into the epic all-of-side-two space blues jam "Macho City", which really threw people at the time.

As posted by Grisso/McCain on the Big Star thread, more evidence that Radio City def. pertains, at least in a key sector:
https://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_classic_big_star_songs_that_arent_big_star_but_a_studio_project_du

Big Star recorded everything in their arsenal for Radio City, but it wasn’t enough for a full LP, so the Dolby Fuckers tracks were added to round out the record. The only information on the album related to the Chilton-led project is this credit: “Danny Jones and Richard Rosebrough played too.”

The British Invasion-sounding “She’s a Mover” is probably the oldest track on Radio City, possibly dating as far back as mid-to-late 1972. The looseness of the evening it was captured in is preserved in the recording, which ends with a jam. The odd feedback sounds came from waving a pair of headphones over a microphone. Andy Hummel later overdubbed a bass part, so he’s on the final version. Big Star took a stab at the song, but their rendering was shelved, as it was felt it didn’t have the spirit of the Dolby Fuckers’ take.

Never heard the full SMB album but "Macho City" is perfection. Love how increasingly, patiently empty it gets until there's nothing at all.

Oops, meant to post these here, not on Big Star thread:

of course, Third/Sister Lovers is all over the place, and Complete Third omg duhhh, but even/especially that is *going* all over the place, with own sort of momentum.

― dow, Monday, July 18, 2022 5:22 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Oh, speaking of Stones as packrats, try Metamorphosis.

― dow, Monday, July 18, 2022

Oh yeah I did hear Circle of Love this week and I can definitely see it fitting. I don't know enough about their history in truth so the jump from 1977-81 feels like it could be significant (even then their 77 album is a companion to their 76 one) but that doesn't change the fact its three ditties, a (admittedly very nice) longer pop song and then all of Macho City, less than half (less than quarter?) of which is the actual song bit.

Not sure it counts since its a collab album technically but Will The Circle Be Unbroken feels like it hits some of the qualifiers here.

I think Parade might qualify here - it’s the breeziest and most insouciant sounding album of his big 80s run; he’s already made the post-PR left turn and has the confidence to mess around without worrying about making a Big Statement

Nothing really sounds overly-laborious and is kind of a good starting point to hear the confidence in his own minimalism-as-virtue ethos

Also I've been thinking how Mike Oldfield might fit and although he has too many albums, and therefore a lot of potential candidates (and a lot of ones that are easy to rule out too, for being too 'themed'), I've decided on him having at least one, 1991's Heaven's Open, if not at least two.

It's "just" an album by Mike Oldfield in some ways, even though none of it is him doing what he does best or what fans want most of him. It all feels quite slapdash and noodley - in order, "Make Make" is flimsy adult dance-pop with amusing midi production, "No Dream" is a moody slowie that by turns sounds like Peter Gabriel and Chris Rea but never meaningfully, "Mr. Shame" is like the mid-point between the earlier two songs, "Gimme Back" sees him go fully pop-reggae, "Heaven's Open" is folk-rock-ish pop and then the big instrumental 'epic' - "Music from the Balcony" - is more of an aimless, incoherent collage that always changes its shape completely and just feels like fucking around (although I do enjoy it a fair bit).

The closing 'fuck off' to Branson aside, I don't know how far along he was with his Virgin squabbles/planning to sign with Warner/already writing Tubular Bells II when recording this one. There is the definite feel of just quickly throwing an album together to get the contract finished, but strangely he does this by doing half pop (in the manner of Virgin-pleasing Earth Moving) and half prog (like Anarok) - except Anarok was him deliberately f'ing over Virgin for Earth Moving's song focus and largely electronic sound, so strange for him to move back there. Does this interest only me? Almost certainly.

And as for classic era Oldfield, what about Platinum?

Again the side-long epic there - the four parts of "Platinum" itself - are him friskily messing around ('Airborne' parpy synth music, 'Platinum' disco rock, 'Charleston' a semi-self-explanatory mix of disco and swing, North Star a Philip Glass tribute). Then side two is his little ambient wind chimes piece (Woodhenge), a (wonderful) love song sung in a Residents/Cheap at Half the Price-ish pitched voice (Sally), his 'parody' of punk (Punkadiddle) and then a Gerswhin cover (I Got Rhythm). All in all a big, lighthearted retreat not from the double-length Incantations but his albums before that too, while still being a 'major' Mike album without a specific concept/gimmick/theme/etc.

Amarok* that should be! I'm typoing everywhere today

Amarok feels like The Orbs Pomme Fritz to me - one of those records that’s designed to come off slapdash and tossed off but was in reality intensively labored over

Oldfield had been counting down his obligations to Branson for years; even the title Heaven's Open is a reference to getting out of his contract, like Gentle Giant's Free Hand. Also, Branson had been asking him for a "sequel" to Tubular Bells for a long time, so making that the first release on his new label was a definite "gesture" as well.
Oldfield's relationship to pop confuses me; he's said he only started writing songs at Branson's behest, but he's returned to songs once in a while in his post-Virgin career.
As for Platinum (or, as it was called over here, Airborne with "Guilty" and "Into Wonderland" added), it is a little offhand compared to the four previous records, but it's also a big turn into recording with session musicians, "going disco", covering Glass and Gershwin. I'm not sure it's any more casual than his subsequent records of the 80s.

I mean Platinum was Oldfield saying "this is how my albums are going to be for awhile".

Amarok feels like The Orbs Pomme Fritz to me - one of those records that’s designed to come off slapdash and tossed off but was in reality intensively labored over

If so, the album's reputation as a MS probably suggests the latter is more apparent than maybe was Oldfield's attention.

I'm not sure it's any more casual than his subsequent records of the 80s.

I was thinking this, and I was sort of ruling them out on probably flimsy ground - namely the ongoing conceptual Taurus stuff and the more Statement-y (to me anyway) feel of a "Crises". But no there probably isn't much difference. Good point about the change re:lots of sessions musicians too.

Sam Cooke’s Night Beat, if it hasn’t been mentioned already.

Appealing take on the Oldfield, thanks---reminds me that one of The Clash (think it was Jones) initially told Creem that they were trying to hasten end of contract by putting so much stuff on Sandisita!: 3 LPs might help, though he said that 2-record London Calling had gotten counted by the label as one album only. However it came about, loose-jointz Sandinista! seems right enough for this loose-y thread.
Also, speaking of xpost "mixed bags" like The Great Lost Kinks Album and Stones' Metamorphosis, leave us not forget 1960s US Beatles cobblers, esp. Beatles '65, Yesterday and Today, Hey Jude, and my fave rave, Beatles IV. Flowers was another such Stones collection.

Sandinista! would be ideal if, coming peak moment of critical acclaim, it wasn't nearly as high stakes (should start abbreviating that to HS) and, pressingly, 144 minutes long. They were gleefully pressing their off-kilter B-sides button throughout those sessions tho ofc.

I think of Combat Rock as a scaled down Sandinista! - the truly atmospheric/indescribable/avant-ish stuff in this deal being "Sean Flynn" and "Death Is a Star".

Re:mixed bags maybe there's fun in deciding which of them would fit the criteria of the list if they had been completely new, full promotion albums and not outtake comps of old stuff. A parallel world where Dead Letter Office is a wobble on R.E.M.'s gradual rise to success. "Ages of You" a single etc. Would probably mean delaying Document onward by half a year or so. Stamp on a butterfly etc.

Prince's Black album and N.E.W.S. fits the op

Oh speaking of Beatles, and and thread-appropriate,original, officially "non-cobbled," but still loose-rolling across the map: what about The Magical Mystery Tour soundtrack, or has that been mentioned?