Major 'informal' albums

I think Parade might qualify here - it’s the breeziest and most insouciant sounding album of his big 80s run; he’s already made the post-PR left turn and has the confidence to mess around without worrying about making a Big Statement

Nothing really sounds overly-laborious and is kind of a good starting point to hear the confidence in his own minimalism-as-virtue ethos

Also I've been thinking how Mike Oldfield might fit and although he has too many albums, and therefore a lot of potential candidates (and a lot of ones that are easy to rule out too, for being too 'themed'), I've decided on him having at least one, 1991's Heaven's Open, if not at least two.

It's "just" an album by Mike Oldfield in some ways, even though none of it is him doing what he does best or what fans want most of him. It all feels quite slapdash and noodley - in order, "Make Make" is flimsy adult dance-pop with amusing midi production, "No Dream" is a moody slowie that by turns sounds like Peter Gabriel and Chris Rea but never meaningfully, "Mr. Shame" is like the mid-point between the earlier two songs, "Gimme Back" sees him go fully pop-reggae, "Heaven's Open" is folk-rock-ish pop and then the big instrumental 'epic' - "Music from the Balcony" - is more of an aimless, incoherent collage that always changes its shape completely and just feels like fucking around (although I do enjoy it a fair bit).

The closing 'fuck off' to Branson aside, I don't know how far along he was with his Virgin squabbles/planning to sign with Warner/already writing Tubular Bells II when recording this one. There is the definite feel of just quickly throwing an album together to get the contract finished, but strangely he does this by doing half pop (in the manner of Virgin-pleasing Earth Moving) and half prog (like Anarok) - except Anarok was him deliberately f'ing over Virgin for Earth Moving's song focus and largely electronic sound, so strange for him to move back there. Does this interest only me? Almost certainly.

And as for classic era Oldfield, what about Platinum?

Again the side-long epic there - the four parts of "Platinum" itself - are him friskily messing around ('Airborne' parpy synth music, 'Platinum' disco rock, 'Charleston' a semi-self-explanatory mix of disco and swing, North Star a Philip Glass tribute). Then side two is his little ambient wind chimes piece (Woodhenge), a (wonderful) love song sung in a Residents/Cheap at Half the Price-ish pitched voice (Sally), his 'parody' of punk (Punkadiddle) and then a Gerswhin cover (I Got Rhythm). All in all a big, lighthearted retreat not from the double-length Incantations but his albums before that too, while still being a 'major' Mike album without a specific concept/gimmick/theme/etc.

Amarok* that should be! I'm typoing everywhere today

Amarok feels like The Orbs Pomme Fritz to me - one of those records that’s designed to come off slapdash and tossed off but was in reality intensively labored over

Oldfield had been counting down his obligations to Branson for years; even the title Heaven's Open is a reference to getting out of his contract, like Gentle Giant's Free Hand. Also, Branson had been asking him for a "sequel" to Tubular Bells for a long time, so making that the first release on his new label was a definite "gesture" as well.
Oldfield's relationship to pop confuses me; he's said he only started writing songs at Branson's behest, but he's returned to songs once in a while in his post-Virgin career.
As for Platinum (or, as it was called over here, Airborne with "Guilty" and "Into Wonderland" added), it is a little offhand compared to the four previous records, but it's also a big turn into recording with session musicians, "going disco", covering Glass and Gershwin. I'm not sure it's any more casual than his subsequent records of the 80s.

I mean Platinum was Oldfield saying "this is how my albums are going to be for awhile".

Amarok feels like The Orbs Pomme Fritz to me - one of those records that’s designed to come off slapdash and tossed off but was in reality intensively labored over

If so, the album's reputation as a MS probably suggests the latter is more apparent than maybe was Oldfield's attention.

I'm not sure it's any more casual than his subsequent records of the 80s.

I was thinking this, and I was sort of ruling them out on probably flimsy ground - namely the ongoing conceptual Taurus stuff and the more Statement-y (to me anyway) feel of a "Crises". But no there probably isn't much difference. Good point about the change re:lots of sessions musicians too.

Sam Cooke’s Night Beat, if it hasn’t been mentioned already.

Appealing take on the Oldfield, thanks---reminds me that one of The Clash (think it was Jones) initially told Creem that they were trying to hasten end of contract by putting so much stuff on Sandisita!: 3 LPs might help, though he said that 2-record London Calling had gotten counted by the label as one album only. However it came about, loose-jointz Sandinista! seems right enough for this loose-y thread.
Also, speaking of xpost "mixed bags" like The Great Lost Kinks Album and Stones' Metamorphosis, leave us not forget 1960s US Beatles cobblers, esp. Beatles '65, Yesterday and Today, Hey Jude, and my fave rave, Beatles IV. Flowers was another such Stones collection.

Sandinista! would be ideal if, coming peak moment of critical acclaim, it wasn't nearly as high stakes (should start abbreviating that to HS) and, pressingly, 144 minutes long. They were gleefully pressing their off-kilter B-sides button throughout those sessions tho ofc.

I think of Combat Rock as a scaled down Sandinista! - the truly atmospheric/indescribable/avant-ish stuff in this deal being "Sean Flynn" and "Death Is a Star".

Re:mixed bags maybe there's fun in deciding which of them would fit the criteria of the list if they had been completely new, full promotion albums and not outtake comps of old stuff. A parallel world where Dead Letter Office is a wobble on R.E.M.'s gradual rise to success. "Ages of You" a single etc. Would probably mean delaying Document onward by half a year or so. Stamp on a butterfly etc.

Prince's Black album and N.E.W.S. fits the op

Oh speaking of Beatles, and and thread-appropriate,original, officially "non-cobbled," but still loose-rolling across the map: what about The Magical Mystery Tour soundtrack, or has that been mentioned?

Good comment on Combat Rock btw

Yesterday and Today got a flurry of publicity (and collector appeal, to this day) because the "butcher cover," but don't know how much of that was part of a promotion campaign---the Beatles pretty much provided their own publicity, regardless of the release, so that was the main reason for all those releases: which, for (almost?) any other artist, would have resulted in flooding the market back then

I mean, Capitol and EMI bought ads and stuff, but soon saw that just about any Beatles record was going to at least do pretty well (although I'm sure there were oh noes, it didn't stay at No. 1 for X weeks like etc. did)

So with Beatles, commercial distinction between major and minor release seems not to have been as clearly defined as with other artists, is my impression, anyway.

what about The Magical Mystery Tour soundtrack, or has that been mentioned?

Numerous EPs (of original material) I guess factor far more into the gist of the discussion because that's what a lot of major rock artists use/used the EP for. Even then, Magical Mystery Tour is compromised because its a soundtrack, and as much as the film is obviously secondary to the songs it (the artwork) still won't let you forget its a soundtrack. I like it as a suggestion anyway - especially given how rapidly the Beatles jumble 'Event' singles and 'informal' single releases for the next two years.

I mean, Capitol and EMI bought ads and stuff, but soon saw that just about any Beatles record was going to at least do pretty well (although I'm sure there were oh noes, it didn't stay at No. 1 for X weeks like etc. did)

It gives me great dissonance, given how the Beatles' evolution is canonised now, to think of US fans presumably having treated Yesterday and Today like one of those 'next steps'. There's several major US acts who famously discussed how Rubber Soul changed everything for them, and there's endless prose on how Revolver's impact on music included its impact in the States - so why no mentions of Y&M?

Good comment on Combat Rock btw

Up there with Synchronicity and No Parlez as one of the great 'the singles don't sound like the rest of it' early 80s albums for me!

Re:mixed bags maybe there's fun in deciding which of them would fit the criteria of the list if they had been completely new, full promotion albums and not outtake comps of old stuff.

Where does Tattoo You fall along this continuum? A "new Rolling Stones album" that's all stuff they'd halfway finished at one point or another in the 70s, pulled off the shelf and finally finished.

Where does Tattoo You fall along this continuum? A "new Rolling Stones album" that's all stuff they'd halfway finished at one point or another in the 70s, pulled off the shelf and finally finished.

Imo disqualified from the main criteria for precisely those reasons, very little of it is a new project. But as you say its still a major Stones album with proper singles and everything, and although its status as mostly older stuff was no secret, nor do I believe it played into its promotion at all (which I suppose it wouldn't, in order to keep it a Proper Stones album) (the other, probably stronger reason I wouldn't count it is that, remarkably but helpfully for the album itself, it doesn't sound cobbled together. It has the eclectic but sturdy, sequenced coherence of a Some Girls and Emotional Rescue rather than the whatever goes here's-a-few-odd-things-and-the-odd-future-classic-or-two Black and Blue)

Now that TY has come up though, I'd love Black and Blue even more if it had Slave and Worried About You on it. I'm really quite fond of that period.

It's mad to me that Weller doesn't seem to have an album that fits. All his more multifarious albums are all a bit too MS - 22 Dreams, Wake Up the Nation et al. regardless of them containing sound collages with Kevin Shields or Robert Wyatt etc. Even the latest, Fat Pop, juggles being 'yeah I've had a bit of fun in lockdown' (informal) with 'these are all meant to be like singles, 3 minutes or so' (concept).

What about---in the face of Great Expectations especially---Led Zeppelin III, or I guess it may be just III? Whatever, they were that way about titles too, following this expensively packaged curveball with the one that publication had to buy special rune type to accurately represent the title of (but the music on that one was much, much more what the suits and the t-shirts wanted).

that publications

t gives me great dissonance, given how the Beatles' evolution is canonised now, to think of US fans presumably having treated Yesterday and Today like one of those 'next steps'. There's several major US acts who famously discussed how Rubber Soul changed everything for them, and there's endless prose on how Revolver's impact on music included its impact in the States - so why no mentions of Y&M?

As I coincidentally mentioned today on the Revolver Poll thread, re tracks that were kept off the US version of that for Yesterday and Today (along with ones from the UK versions of Help! and Rubber Soul), I dug the result for its "raw, collage-y" effect, kinda like twisting the radio or TV dial, but always getting ace Beatles across the years (not that many years so far, but the changes could be heard). Likewise Beatles 65 and Hey Jude, but Beatles VII had more stylistic continuity, sounded like to me--melding the mellow and the screamers---and it was my favorite---at parties, I'd play it between Never Mind The Bollocks and In The City

"Raw, collage-y": not a million miles from original cover

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/The_Beatles_-_Butcher_Cover.jpg

Nilsson’s “Pussycats”

Hosono's Philharmony is one of these - all his actual songs were going to YMO, so most of it is him messing about on his sampler. the songs that did make it are amazing of course and thats why it's become one of his most famous albums

Cluster's Curiosum may fit as well. it's such a weird & subtle record. I'd believe it if they said it was made in a day

Teenage Fanclub's The King?

Will Oldham, mentioned above, is an example of someone who almost only does “informal” albums. See also Guided by Voices.

Pete Townshend - Who Came First

Paul Weller "Studio 150“

Nice suggestions all, but Studio 150 is covers, The King didn't have full promo, Pussy Cats has the major marketing novelty of Lennon (the cover is the closest an official solo, non-collab album can get to seeming like an official collab album). III I personally discounted somewhere in the thread precisely because of how HS it was - even though it would totally fit had it come much later, I think. That's why I think of Zep have one its In Through the Out Door - maybe the 3 1/2 years away and it being a big comeback compromises matters though? But it definitely has the feel and playful jammy/genre-dabbles etc. of one, I think.

I can see Who Came First a fair bit. Solo albums are murky waters for the criterion but yeah.

If it wasn't their second album - and also probably their best-loved - Shazam!

"Message from the Country" is more informal. "Shazam" is anything but.

They didn't have much new material for Shazam - well any, apart from "Beautiful Danger" - so they looked to their stage act for relevant covers to do, and "Cherry Blossom Clinic" again. Just as well that all those covers are really good.

DAUGHTER

I think it's a real Diver Down moment for them, in other words

Who Came First was only released because Who fans were seeking out private-press Meher Baba tribute records that contained some of those Townshend songs. Decca thought they were losing out on potential sales, and proposed to release all the songs (plus a couple of non-Townshend things) on one LP. Even after it came out, though, Townshend was quoted as saying he doesn't think he ever really made a solo record, and that Quadrophenia was, in essence, a solo record. So yeah, definitely informal, eclectic, and low-stakes, but it could be argued that it wasn't conceived of, nor approached, as an album.

I see it fitting providing it still had the full promotional game relevant to Who albums, which I'm unsure if it did.

Shazam is their Tonight

It definitely didn't. There were print ads, but no radio promotion, no singles excerpted from it, and it topped out at #69 in the US. But Decca also did the same lack-of-promotion for other Who members' solo records, lest any become big enough hits that someone might consider leaving the group and killing the label's cash cow (though Daltrey's solo records sold decently, getting into the top 30 twice).

xp

I was thinking of Pearl Jam’s No Code, but it seems less informal than just kind of messy.

Bassist Jeff Ament was not made aware that the band was recording until three days into the sessions, and said that he "wasn't super involved with that record on any level."

McCready said that a lot of the songs were developed out of jam sessions, and said "I think we kind of rushed it a little bit." Ament said that the band members would bring in fragments of songs, and it would take hours before Vedder could have music to which he could add vocals. He added that "Ed's typically the guy who finishes off the songs...But by the end of No Code, he was so burnt, it was so much work for him."

ha ha, does that Ament quote mean they didn't invite him right away; or he was there in the studio, but didn't realize they were rolling tape?

It doesn't actually fit because it came so early in their career* but A Quick One has some important qualities. Big cohesive statements or sustained moods be damned - Chris Stamp's latest business negotation ensured each member would get a hefty sum if they all contributed songs so, for the only time, they all did. This means there's a momentary cover, Roger chucks in a quick if likeable throwaway, Keith gets to do his Lennon-ish song and deranged brass-band march, John writes two quietly demented songs that helped set his style while Pete, beyond the opening song, isn't back as a writer until track seven on the other side, silently brewing the mini-opera in his mind all that time.

*as far as rushed 1966 second albums go, If Music Be the Food of Love, Prepare for Indigestion

In the vicinity of this thread and "back to basics" albums (#onethread), John Mellencamp's Dance Naked was a response to the relative failure of the more "baroque" arrangements of Human Wheels.

Jacson Browne's Running on Empty has aspects of this. Is the fitness-for-this-thread-ishness diluted by it's massive success?

while Pete, beyond the opening song, isn't back as a writer until track seven on the other side

What's frustrating about A Quick One is that, earlier that year, they'd released "Substitute," "I'm A Boy," and "Happy Jack," all of which would have improved the album considerably (and in fact, "Happy Jack" replaced "Heat Wave" on the US version of the album, itself titled Happy Jack).

Yeah, that's the version I have, didn't know it ever had "Heat Wave" on it! Hot damn would it be a killer album with those other tracks crammed in. It's not like it's even a long album so this is one of those cases where I wish the American editors had done even more meddling against the artist's wishes.

Queens of the Stone Age albums Era Vulgaris and Villains both feel like "we're trying out some new directions, here's what's in the workbook".

It's not like it's even a long album so this is one of those cases where I wish the American editors had done even more meddling against the artist's wishes.

There was also the Ready Steady Who EP earlier in 1966. Put "Disguises," "Circles," and "Batman" on the US A Quick One -- in addition to the aforementioned singles -- and it suddenly becomes one of the more significant records of 1966.

But US Decca couldn't even meddle properly. They had no clue how to market a British rock act in the US, which is why all the pre-"Happy Jack" singles flopped here. The idea that anyone at Decca at the time would pick those 1966 Who singles and EP tracks and think, "Hey, we can make a seriously great album out of this!" was ludicrous -- they were still trying to sell Ricky Nelson records.

Zooropa is a funny one because at the time it was definitely marketed as a major event where U2 would blow everyone's minds and take music to the future, and when it turned out to be a bit shit commercially and critically, the whole thing was retconned as "just a bit of an experiment, nothing too serious".